Trade: TOR/DAL (goodbye mcdonagh)

[Peter]

It's bad timing for firsts is the only thing I'm hearing. If Pete hold onto this first, then he's right, this is a value increase.

Oh yeah I'm definitely holding onto it, neither DAL or CAR or ANA first rounders are available

[kimmer]

oolala, im DEF bookmarking this thread

[kyuss]

Then he goes and trades him for a good prospect + a 1st.

what prospect?
(and what 1st i might add)

[kyuss]

Come on Brad Richards went for a lottery pick.

mmh, no, he didn't.

[Sensfanjosh]

I just think its the same thing Pete you trade a relatively proven commodity for a couple unknowns. Every year 'next years' draft is gonna be the best one ever, then as the spotlight is thrust on these kids the media picks them apart throughout the year till its revealed its another average draft year. Banking on 4th overall becoming another NHL ready guy in Couturier is a risky proposition if you ask me. That's the reason why I would have taken a look at other offers which admittedly I don't know/ haven't seen but landing two or three NHL players for one would seem solid to me if I were you. But again each GM is different and has a different approach to building their team

[Shep]

Mikey takes it on this one.

You wanted Byfuglien+ and then settle for this? Wouldn't touch this deal for the Buff.

Ah well. It happens.

[Shep]

Nikitin is not unknown. He's awesome. Just comparing what Ive heard about the asking price, and the final deal.

[KapG]

Mike scores a no scope mid range AWP headshot here i think

[armandtanzarian]

Mike scores a no scope mid range AWP headshot here i think

Speaking of....This is where I am going in November...

http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/index. ... &Itemid=17

look at the selection i get to choose from.....

[KapG]

Mike scores a no scope mid range AWP headshot here i think

Speaking of....This is where I am going in November...

http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/index. ... &Itemid=17

look at the selection i get to choose from.....

That looks like a pile of fun right there...

my oh my, so many I would want to fire. Any of the HK G-36, the AUG, AK, Thompson M1A1, SCAR

[Mike]

Mike scores a no scope mid range AWP headshot here i think

Speaking of....This is where I am going in November...

http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/index. ... &Itemid=17

look at the selection i get to choose from.....

No wonder Doan wants to stay in Arizona.

[kimmer]

Letting go of all bias towards my 2013 pick, in all fairness, I don't get people keep calling Nikitin a prospect... any of those guys watch the Jackets/Blues play?... Nikitin was the central piece going to CBJ from STL over the exchange for Kris Russell, and Russell is the far inferior and a shittier player to begin with. Nikitin is actually a pretty damn good young d-man that has pretty good hockey IQ, and while Kris was praised by Hitchcock for his "offensive abilities", was a priority as a full time roster player over many other young STL D such as Ian Cole, Jeff Woywitka, Taylor Chorney etc and were the injury fill-in for Russell when he went down about 1/4 of the season. What makes anyone think Nikitin is a "prospect" in the CBJ system is beyond me... he's played through and through as the true roster player and still considering his age, he actually still has upside left in him provided that he contributes more hits and dirty PK time.


All that being said, all those that think my pick is bottom five this yr is also laughable! LOL

[Peter]

Nikitin arguably put up top pairing numbers as a BJ last year, if he played a full season his numbers would have been similar to Brian Campbell's if he kept up his pace, but with more hits and bs. Shiv calling him a prospect is crazy. Obviously Paul you will not like the fact that you think your pick will be less valuable than I think it will, and thats fine, prove me wrong, but as of now and regarding track record, I'm projecting it to be a lottery pick. I really think nikitin is getting underrated, he is a staple on D for the BJs. And Shep if I had Byfuglien I'd trade him for this, I guess value's differentiate, but what I'm considering a top 5 pick is enough to downgrade to a dman who puts up Nikitins numbers.

[Peter]

I really feel like I've answered all questions regarding this trade and made it seem very logical from my pov, and shown that the value is there. It seems as simple as people being upset at how much this improves Mike's team.

[Peter]

Nikitin is not unknown. He's awesome. Just comparing what Ive heard about the asking price, and the final deal.

I really feel like my asking price was consistent with the deal though! the value of that pick is worth the second piece that I wanted to add. Like in comparison I asked Josh for Leddy and SK. He flat out declined it no real consideration. Statistically whats the difference between Leddy and Nikitin? well Nikitin was a little better last season during his BJ stint, but Leddy has his upside, I'd argue they are similarly valuable defenders, with maybe a slight edge to Leddy. So then you compare SK vs this draft pick. In all likeliness that draft pick becomes a much more valuable piece than SK in a years time, a much more valuable players within time, and as a rebuilding team, I'd much rather have the upside of that pick. From a positional pov, this draft is loaded with Centermen, and highly touted centers have a knack for delivering over time, given the past 6 years history of Centers picked in the top 10, so upside wise I'm getting a player much better than SK, worst case scenario with time that players maybe puts up similar numbers. Obviously I took the patient route, but is there any other route to take with my team? No, not really. I feel that my value has been consistent and after much bartering this is the best I could do while making a trade I'm happy with. I think I won the cycle within this trade, involving what I paid for McDonagh and what I sold him for, and I think in the long run I make more out of this trade than what McDonagh would have offered me. BBKL consensus is often wrong anyways.

[Peter]

I just think its the same thing Pete you trade a relatively proven commodity for a couple unknowns. Every year 'next years' draft is gonna be the best one ever, then as the spotlight is thrust on these kids the media picks them apart throughout the year till its revealed its another average draft year. Banking on 4th overall becoming another NHL ready guy in Couturier is a risky proposition if you ask me. That's the reason why I would have taken a look at other offers which admittedly I don't know/ haven't seen but landing two or three NHL players for one would seem solid to me if I were you. But again each GM is different and has a different approach to building their team

I was just saying 4th overall is as valuable as Couturier near draft time, and that if the players in this class continue to progress there's a lot of reason to keep it

[kimmer]

Nikitin arguably put up top pairing numbers as a BJ last year, if he played a full season his numbers would have been similar to Brian Campbell's if he kept up his pace, but with more hits and bs. Shiv calling him a prospect is crazy. Obviously Paul you will not like the fact that you think your pick will be less valuable than I think it will, and thats fine, prove me wrong, but as of now and regarding track record, I'm projecting it to be a lottery pick. I really think nikitin is getting underrated, he is a staple on D for the BJs. And Shep if I had Byfuglien I'd trade him for this, I guess value's differentiate, but what I'm considering a top 5 pick is enough to downgrade to a dman who puts up Nikitins numbers.

lol it's fine man I am not even offended it's my own team and I'll gauge how well I think my team will do, that's all, and considering all factors, your mistake IMO in think that way is that I dont think u've atually taken a look at my active roster in comparison to those years where it was a bottom 5 team, and now how much I've actually expanded my assets over the last year til this off-season So that's why in all in all, I still think you lost this deal cuz you most likely got paid Nikitin + 10-15th overall pick in 2012-2013

[Peter]

Nikitin arguably put up top pairing numbers as a BJ last year, if he played a full season his numbers would have been similar to Brian Campbell's if he kept up his pace, but with more hits and bs. Shiv calling him a prospect is crazy. Obviously Paul you will not like the fact that you think your pick will be less valuable than I think it will, and thats fine, prove me wrong, but as of now and regarding track record, I'm projecting it to be a lottery pick. I really think nikitin is getting underrated, he is a staple on D for the BJs. And Shep if I had Byfuglien I'd trade him for this, I guess value's differentiate, but what I'm considering a top 5 pick is enough to downgrade to a dman who puts up Nikitins numbers.

lol it's fine man I am not even offended it's my own team and I'll gauge how well I think my team will do, that's all, and considering all factors, your mistake IMO in think that way is that I dont think u've atually taken a look at my active roster in comparison to those years where it was a bottom 5 team, and now how much I've actually expanded my assets over the last year til this off-season So that's why in all in all, I still think you lost this deal cuz you most likely got paid Nikitin + 10-15th overall pick in 2012-2013

If it is 10-15, then I definitely will be praising you and be bummed out that I lost this deal, if its 6-8 are then mehhhhh it's close-ish to even for me, and if its a lottery pick Im ecstatic

[Sensfanjosh]

You forget how many D the BJs have added as well as a few up and coming prospects and a full year from Wiz as well though, there is a significant chance Nikitin sees a reduced role from last year, and if the offense was a flash in the pan than where does it leave you, as his periphs leave much to be desired.

FWIW SK is worth much more to me than CAR 1st this far from the draft as well.

[kimmer]

You forget how many D the BJs have added as well as a few up and coming prospects and a full year from Wiz as well though, there is a significant chance Nikitin sees a reduced role from last year, and if the offense was a flash in the pan than where does it leave you, as his periphs leave much to be desired.

FWIW SK is worth much more to me than CAR 1st this far from the draft as well.

Wiz was already a part of CBJ by the time Nikitin was already playing full time role, and Wiz's arrival never really affected Niktin's playing time.