CAR/PIT Major Trade

[Robin Hood]

Yes, I'm about to lose another trade (and no i'm not just saying that).

To Carolina

Daniel Sedin
Brett Sonne


To Pittsburgh

Marc Savard
Michael Handzus
4th CAR 2011
5th MIN 2011

[Radiohead]

Confirmed.

[Robin Hood]

In Raleigh, Daniel was spotted on a picnic bench in the fetal position bawling his eyes out, while embracing Henrik's Penguins jersey.

[Radiohead]

[MSP4LYFE]

Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

[kyuss]

Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

well, the trade is not Sedin for Savard though..

[anton]

handzus is nothing to laugh at. i say its fairly even.

[Shoalzie]

With Handzus, I'm surprised he's only 33 because he seems like he's been in the NHL longer than he has. He's a very steady 3rd line center...he's been a nice fit for the Kings.

Savard is a high assist guy when healthy but the Bruins had trouble scoring goals this year. He played in all 82 games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons, not counting this year. This season can raise some concerns but he's good for 60-70 assists when he plays a full season...that could make up for what you lose with Sedin.

Daniel had 56 assists in 63...he would've had a career high had he stayed healthy. He's not nearly the assist guy Henrik has been but Daniel is capable of scoring 30 goals. You might get close to that from a healthy Savard but he'll be 33 this summer and had the health issues this year.

To me, I would've hung onto the Sedins unless you were getting an unquestionable stat-sheet stuffer in return. Shiv is getting two very solid players but not elite, nor young. He probably wouldn't have been in a bad shape if he didn't do this deal but I don't think he hurt himself by doing this deal if he gets a healthy Savard.

[Robin Hood]

MSP4LYFE wrote:Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

let me put it this way:

I lost about 10 goals, 20 points (at the most), 20 +/- (I'm first in the league in +/- by a mile) in this trade.

I gained 1400 faceoffs, 10 PPP, 200 SHTOI + other periphery stats like hits and blocked shots.

[Shoalzie]

MSP4LYFE wrote:Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

let me put it this way:

I lost about 10 goals, 20 points (at the most), 20 +/- (I'm first in the league in +/- by a mile) in this trade.

I gained 1400 faceoffs, 10 PPP, 200 SHTOI + other periphery stats like hits and blocked shots.

It really depends on what stats you felt you needed help with. If you have enough offense, then it was wise to get guys that can help in other areas. By no means are the Sedins the most complete players in the league...far from it. For offensive numbers, they'll deliver but I'd rather have a guy like Kesler off the Canucks if you want the broad spectrum of stats. You can't really win in this league with guys that just give you the sexy stats unless they're complete freaks...100+ assists or 60-70 goals.

[jcarton]

Nice little pick up for Carolina, pitts did alright but dosen't win the deal, savard is aging but he still has some punch to him

[bills09]

[fedro91]

Yes, I'm about to lose another trade (and no i'm not just saying that).

To Carolina

Daniel Sedin
Brett Sonne


To Pittsburgh

Marc Savard
Michael Handzus
4th CAR 2011
5th MIN 2011

Pittsburgh ask my advice and I told me he could of gotten more for Sedin. Like cmon Handzus and the picks are worthless at the moment. Handzus bring up the Cap up. I believe Pittsburgh won the deal big since a Winger is harder to find then a center.

[MSP4LYFE]

Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

well, the trade is not Sedin for Savard though..

You would take Handzus and those useless picks over Brett Sonne...

[Scott]

Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

well, the trade is not Sedin for Savard though..

You would take Handzus and those useless picks over Brett Sonne...

Exactly..

[MSP4LYFE]

MSP4LYFE wrote:Wow...Stupid trade by Pittsburgh...Especially with Savards concussion, age, and inevitable Seguin selection...Savards days as a prime time #1 center are numbered IMO. To be fair Sedin isn't that young either, but only seems to be hitting his prime now, whereas Savard appears to be ending his.

let me put it this way:

I lost about 10 goals, 20 points (at the most), 20 +/- (I'm first in the league in +/- by a mile) in this trade.

I gained 1400 faceoffs, 10 PPP, 200 SHTOI + other periphery stats like hits and blocked shots.

You can not just assume those stats will stay consistent over next season, the NHL does not work like that...You have failed to account for Savards concussion, advanced age, and (potentially) diminishing role with Seguin/Colbourne likely to enter the fold. Not to mention the hole on the Bruins wing which resulted in a last place finish in GF last season.

As for +/ there is no way you can set yourself up for sucess in that category, it is such a subjective stat, almost entirely based on team play, a great team can be an avg team the next, and vice versa. Just because you lead the league in +/- one year does not mean you will do it again, in fact I would wager a large sum that you will not repeat. Just based on the randomness of the stat. FOW, SHTOI and BS tend to be more consistent from year to year, so I will give you that.

If I were you I would pray that Boston somehow acquires Taylor Hall.

[Nick]

for the next 1-2 years yea... handzus may get some hate online forums... but he plays good hockey on the ice

the odds of sonne ever producing as he does is pretty low



and ye... expecting players stats to repeat in some categories is crazy...

fow has the same group year after year

the top 20 in goals is pretty consistent (though top 5 change), ditto with total pts
assist's however have the same top few year-to-year


anyways... i'd have kept the sedin's together... they would easily win some weeks for ya... this spreading out is smart in some ways... but...

[Robin Hood]

Here are some things to consider:

1) Sonne's value in 2 years is less meaningful to me than Handzus's value now. I'm going for it next year. If that means i hand over a good prospect that's fine. If I win the title it will be worth it.
2) Handzus is being underrated here. He's 4m yes, but year by year he has produced 45 Points, 75 hits, 200 + shtoi, 600 + faceoffs, 50 + BS, and he's going to get me 10 STPTS min.
3) Daniel is great. No doubt. But he brings only offensive categories. Offense is a category I have more players gifted in than categories like FOW. You made the argument that +/- stats change year to year so there may be a completely different winner next year. But let me ask you this. Is there not a chance that Daniel and Henrik's production will not be as high going forward? When I made the trade I forecasted Daniel for 90 points (as one can argue it can be over and below that).
4) As far as Savard is concerned, I believe he is capable of producing 70 points for me. Does anyone disagree with me here? To me that is a loss of 20 points.
5) I also believe Edmonton takes Seguin not Hall. With MSP, Omark, Hemsky, Penner, I think it makes more sense for them to take Seguin to have a Seguin, Eberle future down the middle (I could be wrong). But if it does happen that Boston gets Hall, Savard's value increases.
6) The periphery stats I gain are ridiculous. 1400 faceoffs, 300 shtoi (not 200 as I previously thought). And this is all the while not hurting my point production severely.
7) There is also a diversification of assets argument to be made here with Daniel, Henrik, Edler and Ehrhoff all on Vancouver.

But again I told Nathan this when I made the deal, I think he definitely wins objective value wise. But category wise, I added a lot of value to my team. We'll see if it pans out.

[Nick]

ye shiv. i think the deal is fine for u.


sedin's have ncie high value right now... sell high... buy low... exactly what u just did.

[MSP4LYFE]

FTR Jordan Eberle is a RW, not a centerman, and the Edmonton Oilers have been linked to Taylor Hall since Day 1. It would come as a huge surprise if they went in another direction. They are not good enough at any one posisition to pass on the better player. If they believe Taylor Hall is the BPA, and the general consensus is that they do, they will take him.