Some Things to Know

[MSP4LYFE]

With regards to UFA, it will never work, the simple reason being we have no control over UFA. How can you force a team to release a UFA when they had no hands in resigning/releasing them? It's completely nonsensical, we should be in control of the major changes on our team, not our NHL counterparts. Furthermore, this idea will not improve parity, in theory it does, but not in practice. The reason the best GM are the best GM's is because they are able to ruin others in trades, not because of a lack of assets, look no further than Pittsburgh and New Jerseys transisitions from ok teams to great teams, all through trades.

UFA works in theory, not in practive, it's been tried countless times in leagues, but more often than not boils down to an unrealistic summer draft. Besides, how do we decide who gets what UFA? If were being realistic, and I assume that's the goal, no one is going to a small market like Nashville, or a garbage team when they can get the same $$$ on a superior team...The idea is flawed in so many different ways.

And to clarify, we do NOT have waivers in the offseason, not in the traditional sense anyways, we merely have a system that prevents general managers from stockpiling veterans in the minors, which was a major problem last year. It's pretty clear that those opposed to it (Cough Kyle) are looking no further than their own situation.

[kyuss]

UFA:

Mik we are all ears for ideas.. to help with free agency... but having a draft doesn't make sense,

Why?

bidding wars are not realistic, they don't go to the worst teams, it is not some asset that can be traded....

may you clarify on this?

[Nick]

where has Hossa signed the last 3 times he's been UFA -????? he goes where he wants. WE CANNOT CONTROL THIS.

they don't alway go to highest bidder
sometimes they end up signing with their same team
sometimes they go to a home team
back to an old GM
sometimes a flock of UFA's go to the same team

Its a life decision, a professional decision, and it needs to line up with the team... this cannot be transferred into a fantasy league...

the situation of the NHL teams roster is not related in any way to our own. right there is such an important distinction that unless someone can suggest a methods that accounts for this, it will never get my vote.


- on top of all of this, adding free agency ruins the value of players in a contract year, it disrupts the pre-existing qualities of the league, and IMO would require and entire re-start.... not worth destroying the bbkl for.... I've seen it tired, and when the discussion came up i started search other fantasy leagues and reading how they do it (of it)... the ones that do are frankly so unrealistic, and take away much more then they add... ask frank-> he'll tell u about his 16 team league with agents and their own contracts and a 70 million dollar cap... is that really what we want to have happen here????

[armandtanzarian]

With regards to UFA, it will never work, the simple reason being we have no control over UFA. How can you force a team to release a UFA when they had no hands in resigning/releasing them? It's completely nonsensical, we should be in control of the major changes on our team, not our NHL counterparts. Furthermore, this idea will not improve parity, in theory it does, but not in practice. The reason the best GM are the best GM's is because they are able to ruin others in trades, not because of a lack of assets, look no further than Pittsburgh and New Jerseys transisitions from ok teams to great teams, all through trades.

UFA works in theory, not in practive, it's been tried countless times in leagues, but more often than not boils down to an unrealistic summer draft. Besides, how do we decide who gets what UFA? If were being realistic, and I assume that's the goal, no one is going to a small market like Nashville, or a garbage team when they can get the same $$$ on a superior team...The idea is flawed in so many different ways.

And to clarify, we do NOT have waivers in the offseason, not in the traditional sense anyways, we merely have a system that prevents general managers from stockpiling veterans in the minors, which was a major problem last year. It's pretty clear that those opposed to it (Cough Kyle) are looking no further than their own situation.

I have no problems at all...My team is set except for one player that i will trade pre or post draft. Who do i have as a vet on my team that would affect my opinion? Trent Whitfield? hes never been up...Riley Cote, you can have him along with Whitfield if that will clear the thought that you are assuming i am basing my opinion on personal gain. I have nothing to gain or lose. I have all kinds of young players coming up that i can send up and down freely...My only concern at the moment is being approx 3 mil over the cap for my long term goals for this up coming season. Who did i have as a veteran in the minors last season? I had Karlis Skrastins for maybe one week who i traded. Maybe i traded him before the season, cant remember...

So back to topic. This "system", is in effect now? and it is all layed out? Who are the waiver police and who is administering keeping track of where a player is when there is no such thing as roster submission until Oct 1st. Is that when all policing will go on? Someone will have to go through every single submitted team roster and determine if player X is in fact considered a veteran, then is he eligible to be in the minors because he was drafted at the waiver draft or was he traded for or was he placed in the minors illegally, therefore he is now on waivers for the rest of the league to make a claim?

Honestly i do not feel that strong about this, i can just see it getting very confusing and the reason i feel i do, is trying to have some realism with a bit of simplicity. If we are going to do this we should have everyone submit a spreadsheet with player names, birth dates, and NHL games played at the beginning of the 2010 season. With this info we can build a quick database to reference.

[kyuss]

With regards to UFA, it will never work, the simple reason being we have no control over UFA. How can you force a team to release a UFA when they had no hands in resigning/releasing them? It's completely nonsensical, we should be in control of the major changes on our team, not our NHL counterparts.

then.. the amount of money a player resigns for is not a major change for our teams? we have no control on that either.
But obviously, i agree this is the main point.. the main flaw to take care of.
However the argument could not be black and white as you make it sound.. you could still find ways to put GMs' discrection into the process. like allowing GMs to choose which UFAs resign, under some limitations.
When in real life a GM faces the situation where he can't sign a player to a new contract without staying under the cap, such player becomes UFA. In our league that team keeps his rights and has many teams to entertain offers from. So anyone will still have to pay to get that player. Which is unrealistic btw. You can bet that's the kind of player a GM of ours would choose to let become a UFA.

Furthermore, this idea will not improve parity, in theory it does, but not in practice. The reason the best GM are the best GM's is because they are able to ruin others in trades, not because of a lack of assets, look no further than Pittsburgh and New Jerseys transisitions from ok teams to great teams, all through trades.

the point is free agency allows new chances for GMs to seek for parity. You can hardly argue over this. Negating free agency protects the status quo.

UFA works in theory, not in practive, it's been tried countless times in leagues, but more often than not boils down to an unrealistic summer draft

you really shouldn't play the realism card on this, cause managing free agency through a draft would still be less unrealistic that not having any unrestricted free agency at all.

Besides, how do we decide who gets what UFA? If were being realistic, and I assume that's the goal, no one is going to a small market like Nashville, or a garbage team when they can get the same $$$ on a superior team...The idea is flawed in so many different ways.

why should we care about this at all? Should GMs of the big teams being favoured on UFA like in real world? Not all the differences from real world are negative..

And to clarify, we do NOT have waivers in the offseason, not in the traditional sense anyways, we merely have a system that prevents general managers from stockpiling veterans in the minors, which was a major problem last year. It's pretty clear that those opposed to it (Cough Kyle) are looking no further than their own situation.

If the real goal of that rule is preventing stockpiling veterans in the farm to use for IR, you could just adjust the IR emergency rule ( which you have been doing) and put a strict limit on the number of veterans a team can start on the farm without undergoing waivers.
No need to make every veteran in farm eligible for waivers and not even need to have re-entry waivers me think.

[kyuss]

where has Hossa signed the last 3 times he's been UFA -????? he goes where he wants. WE CANNOT CONTROL THIS.

they don't alway go to highest bidder
sometimes they end up signing with their same team
sometimes they go to a home team

again, why should we care about where they would sign in real life?
The only important thing/problem should be.. will they resign or become UFA?

- on top of all of this, adding free agency ruins the value of players in a contract year

the same thing happens in the NHL though (and only for those eligible for UFA. Not every contract year means incoming UFA obviously).

it disrupts the pre-existing qualities of the league, and IMO would require and entire re-start.... not worth destroying the bbkl for

no doubts it is not worth destroying it. If a solution that would salvage pre-existing qualities of the league can not be found, then it's a no go for myself as well.

[Nick]

kyuss

how do u decide where he goes???

[kyuss]

kyuss

how do u decide where he goes???

as mentioned earlier, the most obvious idea is through draft.

[Nick]

kyuss

how do u decide where he goes???

as mentioned earlier, the most obvious idea is through draft.

and that is less realistic then keeping them.

suddenly the worst teams get
- top entry
- top waiver
- top UFA


and as I already said, where UFA's sign SHOULD NOT be a tradable asset, and they don't go to the bottom feeders... the most realistic scenario we can replicate is they stay where they are.

[Scott]

I wish I had the energy to reply right now but I'm feeling like a bag of shit! I'm shocked at how much of a fight this is getting when it's so fuckin simple and so REALISTIC..

The ONLY negative there is to this idea is losing a couple players.. everyone get out their man-cards and think about this

[Nick]

i have thought about it, lots. i even tried writing proposals a few times (during the infancy stages of bbkl)... but the flaws out number the pluses in every scenario i've heard of, thought of or tried.



its not just about losing guys.

its about how many factors are out of our control, and how simulating it is simply unrealistic.
and it becomes worse when you add in team context... there is no solution for this particularly confounding error.

[MSP4LYFE]

No point in arguing this Nick... We already have at length, out points are well known at this point. Besides 90% of the league hates the idea, it won't happen. IF it does, you can count me out of next season gentleman, I have ZERO interest in an end of season UFA draft, I've been in leagues like that before and hated them all.

P.S. It was a joke Kyle

[Scott]

No point in arguing this Nick... We already have at length, out points are well known at this point. Besides 90% of the league hates the idea, it won't happen. IF it does, you can count me out of next season gentleman, I have ZERO interest in an end of season UFA draft, I've been in leagues like that before and hated them all.

P.S. It was a joke Kyle

-beep-

But seriously, you guys have your stance.. I wish others would chime in with pros and cons not just two guys who consistently contribute to the league......-beep-.. anyone? Mike? Nate? Hong? jcarton? Mash? fuck, even Frank? Anyone?

[MSP4LYFE]

No point in arguing this Nick... We already have at length, out points are well known at this point. Besides 90% of the league hates the idea, it won't happen. IF it does, you can count me out of next season gentleman, I have ZERO interest in an end of season UFA draft, I've been in leagues like that before and hated them all.

P.S. It was a joke Kyle

Another plus guys..

But seriously, you guys have your stance.. I wish others would chime in with pros and cons not just twindle dee and twindle dumb.. I'm getting tired of reading your posts on this idea tbh.. anyone? Mike? Nate? Hong? jcarton? Mash? fuck, even Frank? Anyone?

We've already done that, and as per usual, you are ignoring the key points and fixating on one argument, losing players, one which has no bearing on anyones argument, and -beep-

[Scott]

LOL I was trying to get ya going Kareem.. I wanted to read a classic blow up, I'm not every good at it though.

But seriously, I'm not feeling too good today.. I'm going to write out a "blueprint" of my vision on the idea. I definitely want to know how everyone feels both negatively and positively towards the idea. Obviously there is more flaws then just losing a few players, I shouldn't say that's the ONLY issue but imo, it's the main negative. We can easily have a random lottery and pro-rate upcoming UFAs contract within a reasonable timeframe before the TD to maintain their trade value. A lot of the issues you guys mention can be worked with. I just really see this, being worked in properly of course, a really fun idea and thing for the league.. and gives everyone another day to look forward too. I obviously love the league as is right now but I'm for improving it and making it easier for all teams to be good.. not just the most savvy!

[Nick]

IMO the next major change we need to make... is the cap...


pro-rate our contracts.... shit would then get awesome.... cap magic

[bma]

I like this guy lol

Mik, I'm going to draft up a plan to implement free agency (I've been working on it a bit for a couple days).. MOST are against it though but I just think they haven't been open-minded enough about the idea as losing a few players is really the only negative about it. You're more then welcome to give me a hand with the "blueprint" man.. same goes for anyone else who likes the idea.

Also, I'd love to get others opinions on this issue.

I'm not opposed to this idea. Def a lot of stuff to work out, but I think it has massive potential to make this league better/ and more fun for EVERYONE in this league, and not just the same 6 people who have allstar teams.

[MSP4LYFE]

IMO the next major change we need to make... is the cap...


pro-rate our contracts.... shit would then get awesome.... cap magic

I love the idea in theory, but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of that, especially with some of the GM's we have.

[Shep]

Regarding Free Agency, how many big stars REALLY go there? Like 3-5 every year? I would just go for a completely random draft, everybody has 1 "ball" and that is the draft order for ROUND 1. Than do it randomally again for "Round 2."

IF we were to do it. I don't care either way, but it would be interesting to have it.

oh god guys... we don't have waivers in the off season....

but we cannot have GM's massing vets in the minors as their injury replacements...and stopping other GM's from games played.. and essentially losing those players to the minors for the regular season!!! hence all vets need to clear waivers to get to the minors come roster submission date.

your not thinking past your own team/1 example.



UFA:

Mik we are all ears for ideas.. to help with free agency... but having a draft doesn't make sense, bidding wars are not realistic, they don't go to the worst teams, it is not some asset that can be traded.... i've yet to hear an example that doesn't make things worse.

I know there aren't "waivers" in the off season, but if I can't have vets in the minors before the season starts and I have to put them on waivers before my roster is set, it's the exact same thing.

[MSP4LYFE]

I know there aren't "waivers" in the off season, but if I can't have vets in the minors before the season starts and I have to put them on waivers before my roster is set, it's the exact same thing.

You cannot recall or waive anyone in the off season (save for a limited drop period), that is not the same as having waivers...Not even close.