NHL Transactions, Injuries & Rumours

[Lee]

I feel like nick has until waiver draft to add him on fantrax. Just so happened that shipachyov's name came up again in the news that helps him out. But you're right. We should be on top of this shit. Maybe even institute a rule that waiver claims/draft picks must be processed on fantrax within 6-8 weeks or else the player is exposed. Really no excuse for not adding pieces you drafted.

How does that make sense? He wasn't included on his roster submission.

I clearly selected the player in early October 2016. This tendency to want to take from a GM is silly and losers like you need to quit ruining the culture of a league. There was no offence that warrants taking an asset like Shipachyov from a GM. I would wager the dude did not exist on fantrax when I made the pick, and I did fail to translate him onto the new SS. It's not like he's a missing piece, clearly

Tampa will throw up a Hail Mary and selects Vadim Shipachyov

DRAFT SUMMARY
Round 1
...
13. N.Y. Islanders (from OTT via DAL) -- Mantas Armalis
14. Pittsburgh (from CLB) -- Ethan Prow
15. St. Louis -- Thomas Di Pauli
16. Tampa Bay -- Vadim Shipachyov
1...

I failed to recognize that I didn't translate the dudes name down. I was not over assets, contracts, cap, or any league regulations. So on a technicality you are trying to take an asset. I am not a new GM who comes in a fails to follow rules, I have consistently and over time shown my commitment and respect for the league. Do not believe this suggested punishment is at any way warranted, fair or just. It would be among the harshest decisions in the leagues history.

Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better for fucking up then asking us to ignore processes put in place with clear precedence in place. But hey, keep calling me a loser because I believe rules are more important than your feelings being hurt.

[Nick]

I never once said I was without fault. I failed to translate the guys name over to the new SS (that was coming out around same time?). However the suggested consequence far outweighs the actual error/impact. Multiple GMs talked trade with me about Ship, I never recognized that I did not write his name down. This is not a player who has been missing, hell it's not like he missed a game, or a year of who owns him, or any real impact, there are not league rules that have been broken.

This biggest mistake about to be made would be the harshest decision in history of the BBKL. A 30 year old, 4.5M, probably top line centre removed from a team for a book-keeping error with no further impacts.

That is not the precedence in this league, I know I have personally helped GMs sort out their cap, SS, fantrax, and tried to make the league fun and functional for as many GMs as possible. You want to take away fun without any realism that is targeted at being reflected. This is a F you for the sake of a F you.

Here's a chance to take from a GM. It is not warranted, fair or just. The punishment does not match the fine.

[foofnik]

I have no dogs in this fight nor do I really want to be involved but I will vouch Ship was on FT last summer. He was added to ADHL Van on July 9th last summer on FT per the transaction history log.

[Shoalzie]

I think in Nick's defense, we don't have a set time period for a player to added to your roster but we do expect the player to be included in a timely manner. Everyone has to be accountable for their assets.

[timwebb1212]

I never once said I was without fault. I failed to translate the guys name over to the new SS (that was coming out around same time?). However the suggested consequence far outweighs the actual error/impact. Multiple GMs talked trade with me about Ship, I never recognized that I did not write his name down. This is not a player who has been missing, hell it's not like he missed a game, or a year of who owns him, or any real impact, there are not league rules that have been broken.

This biggest mistake about to be made would be the harshest decision in history of the BBKL. A 30 year old, 4.5M, probably top line centre removed from a team for a book-keeping error with no further impacts.

That is not the precedence in this league, I know I have personally helped GMs sort out their cap, SS, fantrax, and tried to make the league fun and functional for as many GMs as possible. You want to take away fun without any realism that is targeted at being reflected. This is a F you for the sake of a F you.

Here's a chance to take from a GM. It is not warranted, fair or just. The punishment does not match the fine.

So the precedent should be it really doesn't matter if you follow the rule or not?

[Shoalzie]

I never once said I was without fault. I failed to translate the guys name over to the new SS (that was coming out around same time?). However the suggested consequence far outweighs the actual error/impact. Multiple GMs talked trade with me about Ship, I never recognized that I did not write his name down. This is not a player who has been missing, hell it's not like he missed a game, or a year of who owns him, or any real impact, there are not league rules that have been broken.

This biggest mistake about to be made would be the harshest decision in history of the BBKL. A 30 year old, 4.5M, probably top line centre removed from a team for a book-keeping error with no further impacts.

That is not the precedence in this league, I know I have personally helped GMs sort out their cap, SS, fantrax, and tried to make the league fun and functional for as many GMs as possible. You want to take away fun without any realism that is targeted at being reflected. This is a F you for the sake of a F you.

Here's a chance to take from a GM. It is not warranted, fair or just. The punishment does not match the fine.

I think the saving grace for you is that we can look up "Shipachyov" on the search on the board and see that you did draft him or if someone has a good memory, they know that he was chosen by you.

I don't want to this issue to break down into name calling and sore feelings. We'll work something out. Safe to say, this rule has to be put in writing so you or anyone else won't be surprised if this happens to them in the future.

[Lee]

I never once said I was without fault. I failed to translate the guys name over to the new SS (that was coming out around same time?). However the suggested consequence far outweighs the actual error/impact. Multiple GMs talked trade with me about Ship, I never recognized that I did not write his name down. This is not a player who has been missing, hell it's not like he missed a game, or a year of who owns him, or any real impact, there are not league rules that have been broken.

This biggest mistake about to be made would be the harshest decision in history of the BBKL. A 30 year old, 4.5M, probably top line centre removed from a team for a book-keeping error with no further impacts.

That is not the precedence in this league, I know I have personally helped GMs sort out their cap, SS, fantrax, and tried to make the league fun and functional for as many GMs as possible. You want to take away fun without any realism that is targeted at being reflected. This is a F you for the sake of a F you.

Here's a chance to take from a GM. It is not warranted, fair or just. The punishment does not match the fine.

I think the saving grace for you is that we can look up "Shipachyov" on the search on the board and see that you did draft him or if someone has a good memory, they know that he was chosen by you.

I don't want to this issue to break down into name calling and sore feelings. We'll work something out. Safe to say, this rule has to be put in writing so you or anyone else won't be surprised if this happens to them in the future.

It has. I drafted Damon Severson, who was left off of roster submission by other team and it was ruled that he was a free agent because of that.

[dave1959]

the rule IS in writing, going back as far as 2012

2012 BBKL Waiver draft discussion
Postby Lee » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:11 pm

Date: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 (noon)

Link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Here are the specifics for the 2012/2013 Waiver draft:

Proceedings
8 hours available to make your pick in the apposite thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8662.
As usual, you're not expected to use the entire timeframe to make your pick if you're around before its end. If you plan on waiting throughout it because of ongoing trade negotiations, please notify other GMs in this thread.
If you don't make your pick in the available window, your pick becomes 'pick at any time' while the next GMs in the draft order can go ahead and make their selections.

Eligibility
Automatically eligible for the 2012/2013 Waiver draft are ALL bbkl-free players who were:
- born before january 1st 1993, if they played a season in N.A. when 18,19 or 20yrs old
- born before january 1st 1992, if they never played in N.A. when 18,19 or 20yrs old

Additionally, bbkl-free players already signed to a NHL contract are eligible as well, even if born later than that.

Notes
- Be sure to have all your players listed on your roster (both on CBS and your forum team page), including the ones drafted in 2012!
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096
Those missing and not eligible anymore for future BBKL Entry Drafts will be considered FA and eligible for the Waiver draft as a result.
- After the Waiver draft, the unowned NHL-signed players* will become available as free agents; however, after rosters submission, those still eligible for the 2013 Entry draft will join the pool of players reserved for it.

* the CC has yet to decide whether unlisted and NHL-signed BBKL 2012 draftees would be made available.
Be advised if you don't submit the required list (again: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8096) before the start of the Waiver draft you might risk losing them! (besides those not eligible for future BBKL Entry drafts).

[Matthew]

No one on cc is trying to screw you over, Nick. We all wish you could keep the player and didn't want to have to rule against you, but the rules are pretty clear on this matter.

[Nick]

That submission cross date has not passed. We are not at the next waiver draft where he would be available if unlisted.

There is no conflicting options for ownership. This is no roster regulation broken. There was no contract uncounted, no cap exceeded.

[Bruyns]

I never once said I was without fault. I failed to translate the guys name over to the new SS (that was coming out around same time?). However the suggested consequence far outweighs the actual error/impact. Multiple GMs talked trade with me about Ship, I never recognized that I did not write his name down. This is not a player who has been missing, hell it's not like he missed a game, or a year of who owns him, or any real impact, there are not league rules that have been broken.

This biggest mistake about to be made would be the harshest decision in history of the BBKL. A 30 year old, 4.5M, probably top line centre removed from a team for a book-keeping error with no further impacts.

That is not the precedence in this league, I know I have personally helped GMs sort out their cap, SS, fantrax, and tried to make the league fun and functional for as many GMs as possible. You want to take away fun without any realism that is targeted at being reflected. This is a F you for the sake of a F you.

Here's a chance to take from a GM. It is not warranted, fair or just. The punishment does not match the fine.

I think the saving grace for you is that we can look up "Shipachyov" on the search on the board and see that you did draft him or if someone has a good memory, they know that he was chosen by you.

I don't want to this issue to break down into name calling and sore feelings. We'll work something out. Safe to say, this rule has to be put in writing so you or anyone else won't be surprised if this happens to them in the future.

It has. I drafted Damon Severson, who was left off of roster submission by other team and it was ruled that he was a free agent because of that.

I took Seth Griffith in the waiver draft with the same technicality after he was drafted and left off roster submission. Just happened last year too with MacGuire. It's an extremely shitty situation and most in the CC were grasping at straws trying to find a way to break the rules in your favour. It came down to no one really being able to present a case as to why he should be owned when there is a rule in place and it has been enforced in the past. It's unfair to other GMs who have lost players and it's tough to say lets ignore the rules this time because the player is more valuable then in the past. It sets up others to expect to be excused from bad bookkeeping.

There were multiple CC members not wanting this decision, but when faced with giving reasons why we should ignore rules and past precedent we all were pretty much left without much to say.

As for the date not being passed, the date of roster submission was where he was no longer an owned asset. If he was owned on Fantrax I think we could have at least bent the rules here, but we were really backed in a corner with rules and precedence.

[Nick]

what is the roster submission date? 7 days after he was selected?

[dave1959]

No one on cc is trying to screw you over, Nick. We all wish you could keep the player and didn't want to have to rule against you, but the rules are pretty clear on this matter.

Also, if we don't enforce this rule, then we would have to reverse every other "punishment" handed out for previous instances where rules have been broken

[dave1959]

what is the roster submission date? 7 days after he was selected?

the beginning of the NHL Regular Season

[Nick]

So, to be clear, if I had noticed this on Oct 15th, that between oct 1st and the roster submission a few days later (or whatever) that I missed this translation, this was the proper outcome at that time?

Because no other relevant date has passed.


Edit: season start was Oct 12th, I made the selection Oct 1st. There has been no other formal submission, or any impact. Not eligible for claim, entry draft, waivers, or cap regulations. The weeks following and once rumour of him crossing started he was in trade talks. There was never a concern of lost ownership or tracking. Yet the decision being suggest that you are cornered makes that the perceived fault.


There is no impact that justified removing him. Not saying that because I " am a good guy", or referencing that I made ver 1 of the BBKL SS, and acknowledging my own mistake in failing to translate him to the SS. I fully support proper book-keeping, and believe that it is a requirement. But that is not at odds with me saying that this is not the justified outcome, as there has been not loss, no impact, no conflict, until someone noticed that he was unowned on FT. Look now, he's on SS and Fantrax, and as always, a quick search shows his ownership history without any confusion or problems.

[dave1959]

kinda like if you miss the meter by 5 minutes and there is a ticket on your windshield.

[timwebb1212]

kinda like if you miss the meter by 5 minutes and there is a ticket on your windshield.

Except, to be fair, he missed the meter by 7 months

[Shoalzie]

Nobody took delight in handing this punishment out but I outlined a couple situations and some others here mentioned other cases. This isn't the first time a player was list due to bookkeeping error.

[Bruyns]

To sum up your argument, if he was taken in this waiver draft you would have had no problems, but since it was discovered the asset was unowned before the draft you feel the roster submission + Fantrax shouldn't be proof of ownership as long as you were made aware before someone else could take ownership?

There is something to it since he wasn't eligible to be claimed with no contract, but it still takes away from roster submission and Fantrax ownership as being important.

The worst part of this all is we know that if this was some nobody it wouldn't be a big deal. The rules are there for a reason, but I'm sympathetic to Nick since he doesn't have a history of bad bookkeeping and the severity of the punishment doesn't really fit the severity of the crime.

[Shoalzie]

Well said Matt.