MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONForsberg was a better player than Sundin, and it wasn't very close. He did it all, and had a physical component to his game as well. The only thing Sundin did better than Forsberg was stay healthy.
Boom 100%.
this however made Sundin likely have a greater impact and be much more important to a single franchise but again, does not make him a better player. I will also repeat, I am the biggest Forsberg hater in BBKL. I am a nucks fan and he killed us for years... this isn't me simply loving a player lol
SuperMario wroteCOLONAnd the number of Swedes you've talked to may have liked Lidstrom more but that's a small sample. Sundin is definitely more revered in Sweden.
Shoot a quote then? Im just going off personal conversations and judging by the admiration level of the next generation of swedish hockey players. I think that is a far cry off a small samlple size compared to annocing the level of which Sundin is revered without any sort of backing lol.
Everything you're using to back it up is biased lol - you aren't providing factual proof. I.e. prospects saying they like Lidstrom or Forsberg more. 1) Forsberg was flashier than Sundin. 2) All defencemen will likely choose Lidstrom. 3) Many prospects do say Sundin - I have no idea how you only seem to hear Forsberg/Lidstrom
Also, this conversation isn't a "Who was better in their prime" - Forsberg in his prime was definitely better.
When you're making a list of the greatest Swedes, 1 is Lidstrom, 2 is Sundin. Would you put Lindros ahead of Yzerman? Bure over Hull? Longevity is a major part of the conversation when it comes to compiling a "Greatest Ever ______" List.
MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONForsberg was a better player than Sundin, and it wasn't very close. He did it all, and had a physical component to his game as well. The only thing Sundin did better than Forsberg was stay healthy.
Boom 100%.
this however made Sundin likely have a greater impact and be much more important to a single franchise but again, does not make him a better player. I will also repeat, I am the biggest Forsberg hater in BBKL. I am a nucks fan and he killed us for years... this isn't me simply loving a player lol
You seem to have confused "better player" with "greater swede"
Lets stop arguing the who the swedes like better. I could pull up my ISS rankings and list the top 30 swedes is shocking how none of them give a shit about Sundin but I am over that argument and you are right both side are bias.
Sundin imo doesn't come close to top 50, Forsberg smashes that list. I also think Forsberg smashes Lindros but don't think either come close to Yzerman. when you have a greatest ever list, Yzerman is really high on that list. lets not get silly wth this argument.
MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONForsberg was a better player than Sundin, and it wasn't very close. He did it all, and had a physical component to his game as well. The only thing Sundin did better than Forsberg was stay healthy.
Boom 100%.
this however made Sundin likely have a greater impact and be much more important to a single franchise but again, does not make him a better player. I will also repeat, I am the biggest Forsberg hater in BBKL. I am a nucks fan and he killed us for years... this isn't me simply loving a player lol
You seem to have confused "better player" with "greater swede"
you argued Sundin was greater in both areas?
I don't care about the swede thing as that was not my argument in the first place. Forsberg is a better HOCKEY PLAYER than Sundin and there is really no argument that is worth any weight imo. We all, except for GP and Arian, we old enough to see both in there primes. Again I am soooooo shocked this argument started, it was a silly jab at the Sundin/Alfy rivalry and that is it lol. Did not try to start WWBLUE
shooker wroteCOLON
For the record I disagree with calling Sundin swedens golden boy lol. I drank with swedes on many occasions and it was always about lidstrom, forsberg and salming. Also if you ever looked at prospect interviews, it was always forsberg or lidstrom as well amoungst the young kids. Sundin is a hall of famer but my fuck I did not prepare to be called on the Forsberg thing...l.
hahaha nice memory - except for the swedes we travelled with for a couple of weeks who barely knew who Lidstrom was, but thought Sundin was the best hockey player in the world. I was never in a conversation regarding hockey with a Swede or a Russian (or German) that didn't have Mats as perhaps the best from 3-crowns. Hell some of them liked Naslund more then Foppa. I remember when you did
During his super long NHL career, Mats was regularly in the top 10 for goals, as well as consistently top 15 for points. I believe he twice finished 2nd in goals (once to Iggy for sure, and i think once to Jagr?). Talking about class of player thats the top tier. Perhaps you've added to how good Foppa is because he shit kicked your dog-shit canucks without remorse? Yes there was a playoff run where he was the best in the world - so was Fernando Pisani - short durations aren't representations of the player or of careers.
Comparing Sundin to Shanny is not accurate at all - Brendan was NEVER the best player on his team, hell I don't think he was ever the 2nd best.
Just because Sundin played through injuries and played for longer doesn't decrease how good he was when he was great - 3-4 year period he was top few in the world. Sadly never benefited from a support system to really pump up some numbers and as memory fades the numbers becomes more and more reality.
I wasn't travelling with you when you met those swedes and I never once said naslund was better than Sundin although in Naslunds best season, he was better but that is one season.
i am going to stop this argument and just youtube for a while on my night of sobriety. clearly this is going now where lol.
Forsberg was the best player in the world for longer than a playoff series Nick... He won the MVP Award in 2003, and between 1994-2007 was one of the highest ppg players in the world.
Fun fact, Peter Forsberg didn't have a single sub ppg season for the first 12 seasons of his career. The rest of his career where he was sub ppg are only 28 games. When Forsberg played he was consistently a top 5 player in the NHL. Sundin played just a tier below that for most of his career.
MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONForsberg was the best player in the world for longer than a playoff series Nick... He won the MVP Award in 2003, and between 1994-2007 was one of the highest ppg players in the world.
Fun fact, Peter Forsberg didn't have a single sub ppg season for the first 12 seasons of his career. The rest of his career where he was sub ppg are only 28 games. When Forsberg played he was consistently a top 5 player in the NHL. Sundin played just a tier below that for most of his career.
Ya I was actually looking up Foppa's stats for fun one nite, and come across the same observation and had me with an open mouth for a minute straight; what injuries? I thought to myself briefly.
Not to mention some of those seasons it was way way beyond PPG
Nick wroteCOLONNot playing through injuries keeps your PPG high. Playing through injuries diminish your impact per game, ditto on playing pre-prime and post-prime.
You do realize that playing through injury is the reason Foppa's career was cut short, right?
SuperMario wroteCOLONNick's alone on this one. Forsberg in his prime was better than Sundin in his prime.
I agree with their single best years, but I feel like longevity is too often viewed as a bad thing. "Only because he stayed healthy, only because he played longer, etc" - BS IMO, playing longer and through more is a plus. Gotta remember this is the guy constantly given the C, and was as big a star at every level, best player on his team from 16 through to 40.
However I don't believe that Foppa was on another level, or that his career was better then Sundin's. Being on a cup caliber team for duration of his prime definitely helped,not that he wasn't a key piece in that team.
Back in Sweden, both Sundin and Foppa have been honoured by their royalty (only 2), and are the only 2 to be printed on a Swedish postage stamp.
FWIW, I think Alfy has done an incredible amount, with no where near the natural ability of the other two.
However, in terms of the importance the best 3 Swedes of all time (IMO) their olympic performance was off the chart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yphUl_FTSA[/youtube]
Can probably add Lunqvist in their already too. Utterly dominant goaltender.
SuperMario wroteCOLONNick's alone on this one. Forsberg in his prime was better than Sundin in his prime.
I agree with their single best years, but I feel like longevity is too often viewed as a bad thing. "Only because he stayed healthy, only because he played longer, etc" - BS IMO, playing longer and through more is a plus. Gotta remember this is the guy constantly given the C, and was as big a star at every level.
However I don't believe that Foppa was on another level, or that his career was better then Sundin's. Being on a cup caliber team for duration of his prime definitely helped,not that he wasn't a key piece in that team.
Back in Sweden, both Sundin and Foppa have been honoured by their royalty (only 2), and are the only 2 to be printed on a Swedish postage stamp.
FWIW, I think Alfy has done an incredible amount, with no where near the natural ability of the other two.
However, in terms of the importance the best 3 Swedes of all time (IMO) their olympic performance was off the chart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yphUl_FTSA[/youtube]
Can probably add Lunqvist in their already too. Utterly dominant goaltender.
It seems like everyone is on the same page, Forsberg had the best prime, Sundin had the better career due to longevity, and the two of them on the whole were very comparable players. The disagreement appears to be stemming from semantics.
Man... thinking about the next men's hockey team for Canada is looking insanely promising:
The middle is insanity, Crosby, Stamkos maybe Giroux, Seguin, RnH, Tavares, Staal...
D is top to bottom awesome: Doughty, Weber probably PieT, Myers & Keith with spots to fight for from Phaneuf, Letang, Subban and any of the emergy studs in the next 2 seasons.
and our big question mark Wing positions filled by the likes of Nash, Neal, Eberle, Hall, some centres pushed to the wing and obviously a stud or two will emerge.
