[2012] Entry Draft Discussion

[Scott]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2. Yakupov also plays the body and drives the net, two elements Grigorenko lacks.

Further consider that Yakupov is as talented, if not more, and the decision becomes an easy one. Like I said above, if anyone challenges Yakupov in the future its Galchenyuk, contrary to popular opinion he is the most talented Russian in this draft class. Nail Yakupov has confessed on numerous occasions that he doesn't have the speed or hands of Gali, and unlike Grigorenko, Galchenyuk works hard, and plays a complete game.

This all sounds a lot like when Ovechkin and Geno were draft eligible. Geno was soft, effortless, wasn't a team player, yadda yadda. Now I bet 70-80% of scouts/GMs would take Geno over Ovy.

[anton]

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2.

or that scout works for a team that will finish outside the top 3 and wants to hurt his value so he might drop to them. all this draft ranking and scout polling can be very sneaky imo.

a quote appears in a random article from some scout and now all of sudden the media/fans/HF has him plummeting down the chart. pretty ridiculous. even if it's not true and the pro scouts can see through it, it still creates this "aura" around Grigo that simply may not be true.

[MSP4LYFE]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2. Yakupov also plays the body and drives the net, two elements Grigorenko lacks.

Further consider that Yakupov is as talented, if not more, and the decision becomes an easy one. Like I said above, if anyone challenges Yakupov in the future its Galchenyuk, contrary to popular opinion he is the most talented Russian in this draft class. Nail Yakupov has confessed on numerous occasions that he doesn't have the speed or hands of Gali, and unlike Grigorenko, Galchenyuk works hard, and plays a complete game.

This all sounds a lot like when Ovechkin and Geno were draft eligible. Geno was soft, effortless, wasn't a team player, yadda yadda. Now I bet 70-80% of scouts/GMs would take Geno over Ovy.

I wouldn't know, I never saw Malkin outside of one tournament in 2004.

[MSP4LYFE]

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2.

or that scout works for a team that will finish outside the top 3 and wants to hurt his value so he might drop to them. all this draft ranking and scout polling can be very sneaky imo.

a quote appears in a random article from some scout and now all of sudden the media/fans/HF has him plummeting down the chart. pretty ridiculous. even if it's not true and the pro scouts can see through it, it still creates this "aura" around Grigo that simply may not be true.

I've heard it from a few different people, and you can see it for yourself on the ice, I still have him ranked second/third, but it is pretty ridiculous to call the race for #1 a close one, IMO.

[Scott]

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2.

or that scout works for a team that will finish outside the top 3 and wants to hurt his value so he might drop to them. all this draft ranking and scout polling can be very sneaky imo.

a quote appears in a random article from some scout and now all of sudden the media/fans/HF has him plummeting down the chart. pretty ridiculous. even if it's not true and the pro scouts can see through it, it still creates this "aura" around Grigo that simply may not be true.

I've heard it from a few different people, and you can see it for yourself on the ice, I still have him ranked second/third, but it is pretty ridiculous to call the race for #1 a close one, IMO.

I'm not saying that Grigs is being considered for #1 overall by as many as Yakupov is.. I just think Grigs is better then Yakupov. There's only one way that this will be proven right or wrong. Nothing is guaranteed right now...

[anton]

pretty classic case of scoring winger vs big center.

if it's close in terms of skill i'll take the big center 10/10, but i dont think grigs is close enough in pure skill/ability to make that the case.

[MSP4LYFE]

I'm not saying that Grigs is being considered for #1 overall by as many as Yakupov is.. I just think Grigs is better then Yakupov. There's only one way that this will be proven right or wrong. Nothing is guaranteed right now...

I suppose that is possible, but I think there is some bust potential there as well. Don't get me wrong I'd risk a top 3 pick on the kid all day, I'm just not completely sold on him, certainly not to the extent that I am with Yakupov and Galchenyuk, I think the two of them are sure fire all stars.

[anton]

im fully on the galchenyuk to leafs bandwagon, but there definitely has to be some concern about that injury. it's rare in a top prospect's development that they miss literally an entire season of development.

there is some factor of the unknown which is scary, but at the same time, that's what is likely to make him fall to us in the first place.

[Scott]

pretty classic case of scoring winger vs big center.

if it's close in terms of skill i'll take the big center 10/10, but i dont think grigs is close enough in pure skill/ability to make that the case.

Grigs is easily one of the most talented players in this draft. Kid has been lights out in the QMJHL this season after going scoreless in the first 6-7 games (IIRC).. he was having a tough time adjusting. If Grigs isn't close to Yakupov in skill then Yakupov should be better then Sidney Crosby one day.. and that is definitely not happening. Grigorenko's skill level is elite. The sky is the limit for him.. he'll be as good as he wants to be.

[Scott]

I'm not saying that Grigs is being considered for #1 overall by as many as Yakupov is.. I just think Grigs is better then Yakupov. There's only one way that this will be proven right or wrong. Nothing is guaranteed right now...

I suppose that is possible, but I think there is some bust potential there as well. Don't get me wrong I'd risk a top 3 pick on the kid all day, I'm just not completely sold on him, certainly not to the extent that I am with Yakupov and Galchenyuk, I think the two of them are sure fire all stars.

I'm not completely sold on any of them. I definitely enjoying watching all 3 of them play but I still find them all to have holes in their games. Granted, Yakupov is the hardest worker, and Galchenyuk makes shit look easy at times.. but I feel Grigorenko has a bit of both.. he dominates the game when he has the puck on his stick like Galchenyuk.. and Grigs can take over a game physically like Yakupov. He just isn't a tone setter like Yakupov.. but Grigs is definitely not a liability physically. All 3 of these kids have star potential.. there's absolutely no doubt about it. I'm a big fan of all 3 of them.. especially Mikhail Grigorenko.

[MSP4LYFE]

Fair enough, hopefully the Leafs are in range to draft at least one of these kids. This organization is starved for a star studded center.

[MSP4LYFE]

im fully on the galchenyuk to leafs bandwagon, but there definitely has to be some concern about that injury. it's rare in a top prospect's development that they miss literally an entire season of development.

there is some factor of the unknown which is scary, but at the same time, that's what is likely to make him fall to us in the first place.

Well, Galchenyuk is expected back in early March so he will still get to experience the playoffs and/or U18 tournament, and like you alluded too if he didn't go down with an injury he wouldn't be in our range. It's not a big concern for me, Cowen missed close to a full year with a torn ACL, and has not looked back since.

[Scott]

im fully on the galchenyuk to leafs bandwagon, but there definitely has to be some concern about that injury. it's rare in a top prospect's development that they miss literally an entire season of development.

there is some factor of the unknown which is scary, but at the same time, that's what is likely to make him fall to us in the first place.

Well, Galchenyuk is expected back in early March so he will still get to experience the playoffs and/or U18 tournament, and like you alluded too if he didn't go down with an injury he wouldn't be in our range. It's not a big concern for me, Cowen missed close to a full year with a torn ACL, and has not looked back since.

As stupid as this sounds but the injury could be a big positive.. for the teams lap that he falls in anyway. Hopefully it's the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[MSP4LYFE]

Agreed.

[kyuss]

Geno were draft eligible. Geno was soft, effortless, ..

effortless skater maybe

then again, around here Malkin recently was still called a lazy ass and a pussy by 2 of the top GMs of the league...

[Shep]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

Stop saying that please. He's supposed to fall out of the top 2 for me.

GRIGS IS A SHITTY LAZY RUSSIAN. NOT WORTHY OF A TOP 10 PICK!

[Lee]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

Stop saying that please. He's supposed to fall out of the top 2 for me.

GRIGS IS A SHITTY LAZY RUSSIAN. NOT WORTHY OF A TOP 10 PICK!

I'm winning the lottery so shit don't even matter.

[Shep]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2. Yakupov also plays the body and drives the net, two elements Grigorenko lacks.

Further consider that Yakupov is as talented, if not more, and the decision becomes an easy one. Like I said above, if anyone challenges Yakupov in the future its Galchenyuk, contrary to popular opinion he is the most talented Russian in this draft class. Nail Yakupov has confessed on numerous occasions that he doesn't have the speed or hands of Gali, and unlike Grigorenko, Galchenyuk works hard, and plays a complete game.

That was one or two scouts. And likely somebody like Columbus who drafts horrifically.

[Shep]

It's not close for a variety of reasons, the main one is effort and heart, Yakupov has loads of it, and Grigorenko has so little that some scouts have remarked their teams will not look at Grigorenko in the first round, nevermind the top 2.

or that scout works for a team that will finish outside the top 3 and wants to hurt his value so he might drop to them. all this draft ranking and scout polling can be very sneaky imo.

a quote appears in a random article from some scout and now all of sudden the media/fans/HF has him plummeting down the chart. pretty ridiculous. even if it's not true and the pro scouts can see through it, it still creates this "aura" around Grigo that simply may not be true.

No kidding. One person writes an article saying a scout wouldn't take him at 25, and suddenly he isn't worthy of a top 10 pick by anybody.

[Shep]

How isn't it close? Grigorenko is an unlimited ceiling and seems to make ridiculous plays so effortlessly. Yakupov is amazing, no doubt but IMHO in terms of talent.. naturally, I feel Grigs has more. Yakupov is just a tireless worker and is rewarded for it. It really is Ovechkin and Malkin all over again.

Stop saying that please. He's supposed to fall out of the top 2 for me.

GRIGS IS A SHITTY LAZY RUSSIAN. NOT WORTHY OF A TOP 10 PICK!

I'm winning the lottery so shit don't even matter.

DREAM ON! THAT'S ME!