League Announcements Discussion

[Jordan (VGK)]

Oh someone finally went there.

[Chuck Norris]

[kimmer]

lol
gon be a fun morning tmr

[Matthew]

If you're going for full disclosure then Mik also has the Vegas 1st with conditions on who gets it depending on lottery results.

I'm making no accusations but it should be public knowledge he has skin in the game with this while being the most vocal one against following NHL results so far.

NHL results vs simulator have exactly the same odds?

As for Lee, your modified pick doesnt help or hurt miks at all. It only effects the current bottom 3 or 4 teams.

[kyuss]

Boston missed GP
Mik has lottery affected picks

If you're going for full disclosure then Mik also has the Vegas 1st with conditions on who gets it depending on lottery results.
I'm making no accusations but it should be public knowledge he has skin in the game with this while being the most vocal one against following NHL results so far.

Oh someone finally went there.

guys, I'm lost

if the odds would be the same under the two lottery systems under discussion, why would one or the other affect my picks?

if there is something, I certainly missed and wasn't thinking of that during this discussion.

Also, being vocal on the public forum it's only because I was the one taking the time to reply at this time, since no other CC member did. Inside the CC I was not the one pushing the use of a simulator for our own lottery when that was originally decided.

My current position there is that I only care that we have a clear position going into the lottery on two things:
- how long should we wait for that info before running our own lottery from scratch
- what happens if that info becomes available after we did run our own lottery from scratch (I think it's obvious what happens, but we will need to make it very clear ahead of the lottery)

Anyway, given the popular feeling that transpired here, I think it's time for me to step down from the CC.
iirc I suggested that in the past already and didn't happen, hopefully this time someone more trusted than me by the league will show up and put in the effort.

Have a good day

[lightupdadarkness]

Boston missed GP
Mik has lottery affected picks

If you're going for full disclosure then Mik also has the Vegas 1st with conditions on who gets it depending on lottery results.
I'm making no accusations but it should be public knowledge he has skin in the game with this while being the most vocal one against following NHL results so far.

Oh someone finally went there.

guys, I'm lost

if the odds would be the same under the two lottery systems under discussion, why would one or the other affect my picks?

if there is something, I certainly missed and wasn't thinking of that during this discussion.

Also, being vocal on the public forum it's only because I was the one taking the time to reply at this time, since no other CC member did. Inside the CC I was not the one pushing the use of a simulator for our own lottery when that was originally decided.

My current position there is that I only care that we have a clear position going into the lottery on two things:
- how long should we wait for that info before running our own lottery from scratch
- what happens if that info becomes available after we did run our own lottery from scratch (I think it's obvious what happens, but we will need to make it very clear ahead of the lottery)

Anyway, given the popular feeling that transpired here, I think it's time for me to step down from the CC.
iirc I suggested that in the past already and didn't happen, hopefully this time someone more trusted than me by the league will show up and put in the effort.

Have a good day

W
E
W

[Da_Hawks]

Can't blame Kyuss for feeling trampled on. Dude's trying to help out and some are enjoying shitting on his face.

Guys/gals/kimmer, if there was any sort of bias, don't you think the rest of the CC would step in and say something? Sometimes ya just need to have a little faith. These are odd times and everyone is doing their best. There's no need to be throwing daggers around here.

[dave1959]

Don't blame you Mik.

I don't see how doing the lottery either way has any affect on the outcome of your picks, or mine, or any others.

People just love to bitch and complain.

maybe it's time we just get rid of the CC and just let the whole league have a vote in everything.

That way nobody can bitch about anything.

[Shoalzie]

The concept of the CC is good if all the members of the group participate. We have a tendency of seeing absentee members of the group not participating in discussions and votes. We have a group of 7 members but the discussion is driven by the same 3 or 4 people on most occasions and I'll get involved in the discussions as well. I only vote if there's a tie.

What we need is a group that is fully engaged.

[dave1959]

I'm just excited to be punished, yet again, for something I had no part in.

We need to stop picking and choosing to follow NHL rules when it's convenient for certain members of the CC.

You can always quit again if things don't suit you.

[Shoalzie]

From my perspective with our internal talks, I didn't understand why waiting for the first NHL lottery draw on Friday to take place was less desirable than scheduling an independent simulator draw in late July. We could've used these NHL results but if the results were inconclusive in any way, then we could've pushed for a simulator to accomplish what we needed.

[Matthew]

Boston missed GP
Mik has lottery affected picks

If you're going for full disclosure then Mik also has the Vegas 1st with conditions on who gets it depending on lottery results.
I'm making no accusations but it should be public knowledge he has skin in the game with this while being the most vocal one against following NHL results so far.

Oh someone finally went there.

guys, I'm lost

if the odds would be the same under the two lottery systems under discussion, why would one or the other affect my picks?

if there is something, I certainly missed and wasn't thinking of that during this discussion.

Also, being vocal on the public forum it's only because I was the one taking the time to reply at this time, since no other CC member did. Inside the CC I was not the one pushing the use of a simulator for our own lottery when that was originally decided.

My current position there is that I only care that we have a clear position going into the lottery on two things:
- how long should we wait for that info before running our own lottery from scratch
- what happens if that info becomes available after we did run our own lottery from scratch (I think it's obvious what happens, but we will need to make it very clear ahead of the lottery)

Anyway, given the popular feeling that transpired here, I think it's time for me to step down from the CC.
iirc I suggested that in the past already and didn't happen, hopefully this time someone more trusted than me by the league will show up and put in the effort.

Have a good day

Resignation not accepted.

[Jordan (VGK)]

Don't blame you Mik.

I don't see how doing the lottery either way has any affect on the outcome of your picks, or mine, or any others.

People just love to bitch and complain.

maybe it's time we just get rid of the CC and just let the whole league have a vote in everything.

That way nobody can bitch about anything.

My biggest issue is the reasoning presented. Not to throw the CC under the bus, but some of the reasoning coming from a lot of you showed a complete misunderstanding for the NHL's lotto system under normal circumstances and this year. Some said they're changing the odds, the NHL won't even know if Team A-H won, the NHL is batching all 8 teams together... If you're going to want to change a league process a week away from a key league date the reasoning needs to be 100% sound.

There is no information out there that indicates the NHL won't reveal which placeholder team wins, but in the small chance they don't, the person who stood to lose the most was Mik. The inverse is also true that I stood to gain the most. That isn't an accusation but I think knowing those facts I wouldn't want either of us involved in the decision making or being the one confronting the rest of the league about it on behalf of the CC's decision. Optics wise it doesn't look great when the person who has the most to lose is fighting for that outcome to be deleted.

[Shoalzie]

I'm just excited to be punished, yet again, for something I had no part in.

We need to stop picking and choosing to follow NHL rules when it's convenient for certain members of the CC.

You can always quit again if things don't suit you.

Lee was made aware of the Boston situation when he going to take the team over. He didn't seem to mind the issue when he and I exchanged messages about his potential return.

Kyle's lack of GM action lead to missing GP by a wide margin and resulting in a finish near the bottom of the league. Whether he returned as GM or if Lee or anyone else took over that team, they weren't going to reap any advantage of poor team management.

What gets ignored with the GP rules is that anyone who misses on the GP minimum should get penalized because for all the teams who followed the rule shouldn't be penalized by not penalizing a team that didn't comply.

[Shoalzie]

My biggest issue is the reasoning presented. Not to throw the CC under the bus, but some of the reasoning coming from a lot of you showed a complete misunderstanding for the NHL's lotto system under normal circumstances and this year. Some said they're changing the odds, the NHL won't even know if Team A-H won, the NHL is batching all 8 teams together... If you're going to want to change a league process a week away from a key league date the reasoning needs to be 100% sound.

There is no information out there that indicates the NHL won't reveal which placeholder team wins, but in the small chance they don't, the person who stood to lose the most was Mik. The inverse is also true that I stood to gain the most. That isn't an accusation but I think knowing those facts I wouldn't want either of us involved in the decision making or being the one confronting the rest of the league about it on behalf of the CC's decision. Optics wise it doesn't look great when the person who has the most to lose is fighting for that outcome to be deleted.

I think the idea of doing our own draw gained momentum within the CC. I wish it would've been used as a backup plan because I had the feeling the NHL lottery results coming up on Friday would've given us what we needed for our draft.

I assume the ADHL is using Friday's lottery results?

[Jordan (VGK)]

My biggest issue is the reasoning presented. Not to throw the CC under the bus, but some of the reasoning coming from a lot of you showed a complete misunderstanding for the NHL's lotto system under normal circumstances and this year. Some said they're changing the odds, the NHL won't even know if Team A-H won, the NHL is batching all 8 teams together... If you're going to want to change a league process a week away from a key league date the reasoning needs to be 100% sound.

There is no information out there that indicates the NHL won't reveal which placeholder team wins, but in the small chance they don't, the person who stood to lose the most was Mik. The inverse is also true that I stood to gain the most. That isn't an accusation but I think knowing those facts I wouldn't want either of us involved in the decision making or being the one confronting the rest of the league about it on behalf of the CC's decision. Optics wise it doesn't look great when the person who has the most to lose is fighting for that outcome to be deleted.

I think the idea of doing our own draw gained momentum within the CC. I wish it would've been used as a backup plan because I had the feeling the NHL lottery results coming up on Friday would've given us what we needed for our draft.

I assume the ADHL is using Friday's lottery results?

Yes they are. For the record I am not against doing our own lotto on a permanent basis, that would be a fun live stream, but changing it for one year a week away based on a hunch is not the way to go.

[foofnik]

From my perspective with our internal talks, I didn't understand why waiting for the first NHL lottery draw on Friday to take place was less desirable than scheduling an independent simulator draw in late July. We could've used these NHL results but if the results were inconclusive in any way, then we could've pushed for a simulator to accomplish what we needed.

That is all we've asked for. If the results are not usable then by all means proceed with our own lottery but don't throw away the NHL results when thats what we ways use.

As for Mik all I stated were 2 facts. I can't speak for internal CC discussions, all I see is what/who posts in this thread but across my 5 leagues that all use NHL lottery results there has only been a single person fighting against using the results and that is Mik. There have been no announcements made regarding how our own lottery might be run either so no comments on that process from me. But when the only person arguing against using NHL results is someone who has skin in the game and has a key role as a CC member in determining that process for our own lottery i think it should be public knowledge.

Again, no accusations being made here but as Jordan said the optics are not great. It seems to be an issue of semantics or misunderstanding of how the NHL seemingly will proceed and nothing malicious.

[Matthew]

Don't blame you Mik.

I don't see how doing the lottery either way has any affect on the outcome of your picks, or mine, or any others.

People just love to bitch and complain.

maybe it's time we just get rid of the CC and just let the whole league have a vote in everything.

That way nobody can bitch about anything.

.

There is no information out there that indicates the NHL won't reveal which placeholder team wins, but in the small chance they don't, the person who stood to lose the most was Mik. The inverse is also true that I stood to gain the most. That isn't an accusation but I think knowing those facts I wouldn't want either of us involved in the decision making or being the one confronting the rest of the league about it on behalf of the CC's decision. Optics wise it doesn't look great when the person who has the most to lose is fighting for that outcome to be deleted.

Please explain how you stood to lose and how mik stood to gain, given the percentages will be exactly the same in either format?

[Shoalzie]

If I've been understanding Mik's concerns, he wants to see method where you can definitely know which team is in each draft position. We think the NHL will give us a full result on Friday but we don't know for sure. I'm betting on them presenting the full results on Friday because why keep anything a secret?

I think there's been a misunderstanding over the "Team A", "Team "B", "Team H", etc. designations. Those are essentially the 8th and 15th place teams in the standings and since the NHL hasn't played out their postseason, the identity of those teams are unknown. However, they still want to run the traditional lottery draw involving "non-playoff teams". As of now, only 7 teams are done playing their season. I'm of the belief they'll unveil the full results on Friday because if any of the 8 mystery teams win a position, they'll have to re-draw for that position anyway.

We can take the Team A through Team H designations and line them up with our 8th through 15th slots and hopefully get a complete result on Friday.

[Jordan (VGK)]

Don't blame you Mik.

I don't see how doing the lottery either way has any affect on the outcome of your picks, or mine, or any others.

People just love to bitch and complain.

maybe it's time we just get rid of the CC and just let the whole league have a vote in everything.

That way nobody can bitch about anything.

.

There is no information out there that indicates the NHL won't reveal which placeholder team wins, but in the small chance they don't, the person who stood to lose the most was Mik. The inverse is also true that I stood to gain the most. That isn't an accusation but I think knowing those facts I wouldn't want either of us involved in the decision making or being the one confronting the rest of the league about it on behalf of the CC's decision. Optics wise it doesn't look great when the person who has the most to lose is fighting for that outcome to be deleted.

Please explain how you stood to lose and how mik stood to gain, given the percentages will be exactly the same in either format?

In the event that we decided to use the NHL results, the results end up incompatible, we do a 2nd lotto, we are effectively giving the bottom 7 a 2nd chance as if the 1st result was 3 bottom 7 the NHL result would have stood. The analogy I can think of is if you roll a dice if its 1-5 the outcome stands and if 6, roll again, and then that 2nd roll stands. Odds are not representative of our lottery but that's the idea. The reason we have most to gain/lose is because the difference between 1st and 4th for Hawks isn't that large, but having a top 3 pick vs not haing one is massive.

Now the obvous counter is if that's true why are you against doing the BBKL lotto? Because i see that situation very unlikely given the information we know. The most likely outcome by skipping the NHL lottery is on Friday we get a useable result and whoever would have won would be pissed their result was washed to protect against a small chance of an advantage between NSH/VGK.