BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

[Jordan (VGK)]

Has anyone done an analysis to make sure the current FOR is providing an adequate distribution of W vs C?

I've done from 4 Cs to 2 because of this awful calculation, and it's fucking with my GP again.

I've done it for other leagues where we use 0.40. The amount of C's available was roughly 5.something per team. Enough to go around when contenders have 6 and rebuilders have 3.
0.45 likely limits that pool a bit.

Memory was off just under 5/team. .45/.40 is a difference of ~12 full timers.

[kimmer]

yea 0.45 is too high
liked it when it was 0.35

[Shoalzie]

I'm not for or against that number...I just want consistency.

But I'll throw an idea out there...

31 teams x 4 centers is 124 (round it to 125). Take the top 125 in FOT (who have played at least 20 games) and don't worry about the actual number. The 125th center could be at 0.45 or at 0.35. Any (qualified) centers under that FOT number moves back to wing.

Like all rules, we can talk about it more during the summer. Nobody seems like to a rule when it's actually being implemented and it doesn't go in favor of them.

My bigger gripe is why don't we do more reviews since the stat can be kept on Fantrax? With a 21-week season...why not do it 3 times (every 7 weeks)?

[Da_Hawks]

Why even do it at all?

Here is my opinion - open and welcome for everyone to critique.

If the player was a C the year before, just leave him as a C for the entire year. People plan their rosters for the entire year, and this change 2-3 times a year where players get all switched around just fucks with everything. People having to make trades because of some arbitrary number ruining your set-up is plain dumb.

Use a website that everyone trusts, such as elite prospects or tsn or whatever, and whatever they have listed, just use that. For those that are dual eligibility, have this (or a modified) FOR formula to decide what they are going into the season. Leave things as is during the season!

The only time we should be using the FOR in-season are for players that are new, and still then we can just use the elite prospects page. If they are dual, then let the manager decide what position they want him to play - but then that decision is fixed for the season.

Something along those lines anyways...

[kyuss]

The final positional update of the 2019/20 season has been performed.

Here are the players that switched position:

C --> W
Hintz
Prokhorkin
Blackwell
R.Asplund
Kamenev
Couture (FOR = 0.448)
McKegg
Laughton
RNH
Landeskog
Kerfoot

W --> C
Lazar
N.Suzuki
JT Miller
Copp
Wheeler

Please point out in this thread any mistakes/omissions.

Note: dual positions are not allowed in this league, if you still have some on your teams point them out here, thanks.

[Jordan (VGK)]

Why even do it at all?

To accurately match the position a player holds to the categories they accrue. It isn’t fair to have player listed W that started taking FOs this year and gain an advantage due to position misalignment.

[kimmer]

lol, da_hawks bro
that's what casual yahoo leagues are for
positional reviews mid-season are required purely due to the fact that this league takes into account FACEOFF WINS as a scoring category in a weekly h2h matchup
yahoo leagues will mostly not

what youre suggesting is that despite counting FOW as a scoring category, let us ignore that throughout the whole year what impact it makes on roster flexibility/level of competition

[Jordan (VGK)]

I’ve put this forward in another league that the formula makes sense but having 3C minimum doesn’t really. Rebuilders are forced to pay for the most expensive position that normally goes against their rebuild just to meet a standard level of competitiveness in FOW. That standard doesn’t exist for any other category and we don’t force teams to dress a min number of PKers or whatever.

Contenders will always have the incentive to hold 5C + bench + exempt but rebuilders shouldn’t have to worry if they are flirting with this arbitrary line we decide. Now, I’m sure there’s some balance here that there’s more scoring W’s out there and punting FOW in favour of scoring cats may make sense and contenders would dress 0C. Haven’t really considered the impact this would have on roster composition at a macro level. Lowering the min to 2C could just be the enough flexibility needed to allow for injuries and variance in the positional changes to make roster management less of a hassle.

Spitballing an alternative to debating 0.45/0.4/0.35.

[Matthew]

The final positional update of the 2019/20 season has been performed.

Here are the players that switched position:

C --> W
Hintz
Prokhorkin
Blackwell
R.Asplund
Kamenev
Couture (FOR = 0.448)
McKegg
Laughton
RNH
Landeskog
Kerfoot

W --> C
Lazar
N.Suzuki
JT Miller
Copp
Wheeler

Please point out in this thread any mistakes/omissions.

Note: dual positions are not allowed in this league, if you still have some on your teams point them out here, thanks.

Thanks, Mik...for switching 3 of my centers to wingers

But actually, thanks for doing it.

[Shoalzie]

Critiques aside, thanks as always Mik.

[Da_Hawks]

lol, da_hawks bro
that's what casual yahoo leagues are for
positional reviews mid-season are required purely due to the fact that this league takes into account FACEOFF WINS as a scoring category in a weekly h2h matchup
yahoo leagues will mostly not

what youre suggesting is that despite counting FOW as a scoring category, let us ignore that throughout the whole year what impact it makes on roster flexibility/level of competition

My annual (casual as you say) yahoo league takes into account faceoff wins, and it's part of the strategy to target wingers who are going to score you some faceoffs every now and then. The Max Domi and Jeff Carter's of the world who go back and forth between wing and center, but never stay in one spot all year.

Why should anyone here be punished for having players change positions at any given time when it's not something that we can actually control during the season?

And actually - to your point, often times the position switch FAVOURS those who have centers or wingers that hover around the cut-off, but never quite make it. McDavid as a winger is the most blatant example of this system not really properly identifying wingers vs centers. Some centers just suck at winning faceoffs. This setting allows that team to roster McDavid as a winger, grab a few FO wins and still roster 5 other Cs on his team (if he wants). Prove to me how this makes the league more balanced.

[Da_Hawks]

And to all those that put the great work into making this happen, I am not trying to discount the work you all do - it's massively appreciated! But wouldn't you all be happier if you didn't have to do it

[kimmer]

yea hence i used the wording "mostly not" as I've been in a few that do FOW there
are you suggesting dual be allowed then? because your aforementioned suggestion of why do reviews at all/carry over from year before doesn't really solve anything either

[Da_Hawks]

yea hence i used the wording "mostly not" as I've been in a few that do FOW there
are you suggesting dual be allowed then? because your aforementioned suggestion of why do reviews at all/carry over from year before doesn't really solve anything either

Do none during the season. Have the positions set in the off-season so people know what they are getting into. Players that play wing and get some faceoff wins become ever more valuable, which helps spark a trade market. People are more freely able to make trades in-season because they know that the person they are acquiring will be playing that spot the entire year. Maybe it pays off, maybe it does not - part of the risk!

If any new players come in - say like a Pierre Engvall this year - he has played plenty of C in his minor career, but elite prospects has him listed as a winger. He therefore gets listed as a winger. If that changes during the season and he starts playing some C and gets close to the threshold, well the GM benefits one season of winger faceoff wins. In the off-season, the league re-assesses his position and maybe he gets listed as C for next year. Rinse and repeat every off-season. IMO having position stability is extremely valuable.

[Matthew]

Da_Hawks plays EA Sports NHL on easy mode.

[kimmer]

Da_Hawks plays EA Sports NHL on easy mode.

LOL ouch

[Da_Hawks]

Da_Hawks plays EA Sports NHL on easy mode.

I have not owned an EA sports game since 2012, and franchise mode was always on hard! For sure put it on easy when I actually had to play the games though - I suck at that part. Was much better playing NHL Hitz haha.

Also, this has nothing to do with things being easy - just being more realistic. Why include curveballs when they are not necessary?

[Matthew]

The entirety of Fantasy hockey is about projections. If a positional update is a curveball, then why bother having positions at all, or bother having entry drafts, or games where we cannot predict the winner? Learn to project, and prepare for when you miss your projection.

[dave1959]

I think part of the problem is face offs count for Wingers as well as Centres in Fantrax stats, so the whole thing about changing from W to C or C to W just makes it a problem for teams that can't fill the positional requirements of our CBA.

[Matthew]

I think part of the problem is face offs count for Wingers as well as Centres in Fantrax stats, so the whole thing about changing from W to C or C to W just makes it a problem for teams that can't fill the positional requirements of our CBA.

Good thing we have the option of bartering built into our league. One good thing about positional requirements increases league activity via trading.