Trade - NYI/FLA

[Robin Hood]

Because he said he'd try them there... and they've PK-ed in the past (although not recently)....

New Canucks head coach John Tortorella promised changes at his first media conference on Tuesday, but the one that jumped out like a Roman candle was his promise to use the Sedins on the penalty kill.

i did not say 100% they are... but denying the possibility, with the head coach saying otherwise, means you two either have ties straight into the locker room, or figure you know more than Torts does about how he is going to run the team.

lol beat me to it nick.

If I had a dime for the number of times I have heard a new Head Coach say things about his team in June/July only to change it in the 2nd Period of the first game or mid-October.

Sedins playing PK back in the Naslund days has NO value now. It's been like 4-5 years since the Sedins played PK.

One thing I've learned is that a player is what a player is, a coach does not suddenly change that.

Btw - this doesn't discount the fact that Torts won't TRY them there. Maybe they get 20 mins of SHTOI on the season.

But the experiment will fail. Willing to make a bet on it in the OTB lounge if you guys like as I see it as an easy opportunity to land some draft picks. 50 mins can be the over/under. 2nd round pick?

[Robin Hood]

I'd be surprised if they weren't at minimum pk 3 this year,. I expect 45 secs to a minute per game minimum.

Btw 50 SHTOI on the season is far below these projections between 60-80 SHTOI, which is what one would assume based on Tort's quote.

Let me know if you want to make the bet and I'll post it.

[shooker]

If I had a dime for the number of times I have heard a new Head Coach say things about his team in June/July only to change it in the 2nd Period of the first game or mid-October.

valid point but torts is not one of those dime a dozen guys. always been too honest with the medial

Sedins playing PK back in the Naslund days has NO value now. It's been like 4-5 years since the Sedins played PK.

I don't care if it has zero value now. you stated they had no experience which was entirely false. That was the purpose of that statement.

One thing I've learned is that a player is what a player is, a coach does not suddenly change that.

agreed and they are very intelligent and reliable players in their own end. Sounds like they could pk to me. Who, If it wasn't for AV and his philosophy of having his star players play only pp and es time, they likely would still be pking. He was also the coach who relieved them of their pk time. Torts has proven to have the opposite philosophy as it can take your stars out of the game as they might not see as much ice time.

Btw - this doesn't discount the fact that Torts won't TRY them there. Maybe they get 20 mins of SHTOI on the season.

as much as I hate to admit it, we need them to pk. Our depth at C isn't what it was, Hank will be required to take the draws Kesler can't. unless of course we land some depth pieces before the seasons starts.

But the experiment will fail. Willing to make a bet on it in the OTB lounge if you guys like as I see it as an easy opportunity to land some draft picks. 50 mins can be the over/under. 2nd round pick?

Come talk to me in sept and I probably will. however, the canucks could obviously make acquisitions from now until then to help stabilized the C position which may drastically change the need for the sedins to play pk. as of right now, I don't see how we wont need them.

[Robin Hood]

Sedins playing PK back in the Naslund days has NO value now. It's been like 4-5 years since the Sedins played PK.

I don't care if it has zero value now. you stated they had no experience which was entirely false. That was the purpose of that statement.

It does matter - it means that they have no experience in this NHL which has drastically evolved. The NHL in 2005-2006 was not nearly the same league as 2011-2012. Sedins have no relevant experience on their resume to apply for a PK position on Workopolis even lol. Torts coming in doesn't change that and even if he throws them out there I think they falter.

Btw - the only big opportunity I see is Henrik as a FO guy as the Canucks don't have C depth. But that would probably be the #1 need the Canucks try to address if they make a deal/signing - getting a #3 C.

But the experiment will fail. Willing to make a bet on it in the OTB lounge if you guys like as I see it as an easy opportunity to land some draft picks. 50 mins can be the over/under. 2nd round pick?

Come talk to me in sept and I probably will. however, the canucks could obviously make acquisitions from now until then to help stabilized the C position which may drastically change the need for the sedins to play pk. as of right now, I don't see how we wont need them.

Deal. I'll remind you in September.

[shooker]

It does matter - it means that they have no experience in this NHL which has drastically evolved. The NHL in 2005-2006 was not nearly the same league as 2011-2012. Sedins have no relevant experience on their resume to apply for a PK position on Workopolis even lol. Torts coming in doesn't change that and even if he throws them out there I think they falter.

LOL I will commend you with how you fight every argument to the death. you argue even when your own comments have been discredited by changing your original argument ever so slightly. I've never met anyone that can twist his own words like you and maintain any sort of conviction lol. You'd make a good lawyer.

[Robin Hood]

It does matter - it means that they have no experience in this NHL which has drastically evolved. The NHL in 2005-2006 was not nearly the same league as 2011-2012. Sedins have no relevant experience on their resume to apply for a PK position on Workopolis even lol. Torts coming in doesn't change that and even if he throws them out there I think they falter.

LOL I will commend you with how you fight every argument to the death. you argue even when your own comments have been discredited by changing your original argument ever so slightly. I've never met anyone that can twist his own words like you and maintain any sort of conviction lol. You'd make a good lawyer.

It's a good thing I'm studying for my LSATs right now then . Writing this year.

[Nick]

by far the easiest grad school test fwiw. Do not stress about it

[Robin Hood]

by far the easiest grad school test fwiw. Do not stress about it

GMATs are pretty easy too but yea not worried. Plan on acing it.

[Nick]

FWIW the player seems to think he can PK.

Canucks captain Henrik Sedin, who was on hand for the presser, said he embraces the new role.

“It’s something we’ve asked for all along,” said Sedin. “We did it with Crow (Crawford) and really enjoyed it, and we did it at the world championships back in Sweden (in May).

“To be a great player in this league you have to be put in those spots. For us, we were counted on to score goals, and if we didn’t score goals we were terrible. When we went back to Sweden for the world championships, we played in all situations. I think you grow as players when you do that.

“I think we can help this team more than what we do. We might not score 100 points, but if we can put up 80 to 90 points and play PK and help defensively, we’re going to be better players, and I think the team is going to be better.”

Their ability to play keep-away on the PK might be UNREAL. I actually think they would be great at this stage on the PK, far too capable of players not to be.

[MSP4LYFE]

Why can't Kesler take draws anymore, Bryan?

[The BBKL Insider]

Because his shoulder is bad, better on the wing

[MSP4LYFE]

Potentially with torts running them on the PK they could be epic bbklers

Why do people believe things like this? Torts has no reason to use the Sedins ont he PK. It exposes them to injury risk and they have no experience.

Aside from the obvious considerations that Nick and Bryan have outlined above, the league appears to be moving towards an increasingly offensive PK. The first signs of it were in NJ with Kovalchuk and Parise taking regular shifts on the penalty kill, since then Giroux has taken on a more prominent role on the penalty kill, and more recently: Sam Gagner, Steven Stamkos, Martin St. Louis, Matt Duchene, Alexander Semin and Ryan Getzlaf. Skilled players are good at anticipating plays, and can contribute to the penalty kill by maintaining possession and creating on the counter-attack. There isn't much reason to believe that the Sedins can't play on the penalty kill given that they possess most of these qualities, and have pk'ed in the past.

[MSP4LYFE]

Because his shoulder is bad, better on the wing

He played center almost all of last season, and had great face-off stats. You don't just move an elite defensive center to the wing, and though oft injured the past two seasons, Kesler is nowhere near the point where he can't handle the rigors of the center ice position. It just seems like a premature and over reactionary statement, but perhaps Shooker knows something I don't.

[shooker]

Why can't Kesler take draws anymore, Bryan?

he can... I never said he couldn't.

I said they would need someone other than kesler meaning that they would need a 2nd faceoff man as he can't take them all. Just poor wording on my part or miss reading on yours lol. Kesler will be our main pk centerman but he can't take them all. that is where we need Sedin to step up as he is our next best. That was all I meant.

[MSP4LYFE]

Why can't Kesler take draws anymore, Bryan?

he can... I never said he couldn't.

I said they would need someone other than kesler meaning that they would need a 2nd faceoff man as he can't take them all. Just poor wording on my part or miss reading on yours lol. Kesler will be our main pk centerman but he can't take them all. that is where we need Sedin to step up as he is our next best. That was all I meant.

A little bit of both I think, lol.

[Tony]

So ... good trade then?

[Robin Hood]

Potentially with torts running them on the PK they could be epic bbklers

Why do people believe things like this? Torts has no reason to use the Sedins ont he PK. It exposes them to injury risk and they have no experience.

Aside from the obvious considerations that Nick and Bryan have outlined above, the league appears to be moving towards an increasingly offensive PK. The first signs of it were in NJ with Kovalchuk and Parise taking regular shifts on the penalty kill, since then Giroux has taken on a more prominent role on the penalty kill, and more recently: Sam Gagner, Steven Stamkos, Martin St. Louis, Matt Duchene, Alexander Semin and Ryan Getzlaf. Skilled players are good at anticipating plays, and can contribute to the penalty kill by maintaining possession and creating on the counter-attack. There isn't much reason to believe that the Sedins can't play on the penalty kill given that they possess most of these qualities, and have pk'ed in the past.

This is a pretty poor argument. Just because other players have, has no bearing on what will happen with the Sedins. But I will gladly make the same bet with you. 2nd roundeR on 50 SHTOI?

[MSP4LYFE]

This is a pretty poor argument. Just because other players have, has no bearing on what will happen with the Sedins. But I will gladly make the same bet with you. 2nd roundeR on 50 SHTOI?

And yet earlier in this thread you have made the following claims:

If I had a dime for the number of times I have heard a new Head Coach say things about his team in June/July only to change it in the 2nd Period of the first game or mid-October.

One thing I've learned is that a player is what a player is, a coach does not suddenly change that.

If the actions of a single player have no bearing on another player then it logically follows that the actions of one coach have no bearing on the actions of another coach. Similarly, just because you have found other players to exhibit limited development in their games does not mean that the Sedins are similarly limited. So if you find my argument weak then I suggest you make alterations to your own argument. I digress however, I have little to gain by debating this any further.

[shooker]

So ... good trade then?

what trade?

[Robin Hood]

This is a pretty poor argument. Just because other players have, has no bearing on what will happen with the Sedins. But I will gladly make the same bet with you. 2nd roundeR on 50 SHTOI?

And yet earlier in this thread you have made the following claims:

If I had a dime for the number of times I have heard a new Head Coach say things about his team in June/July only to change it in the 2nd Period of the first game or mid-October.

One thing I've learned is that a player is what a player is, a coach does not suddenly change that.

If the actions of a single player have no bearing on another player then it logically follows that the actions of one coach have no bearing on the actions of another coach. Similarly, just because you have found other players to exhibit limited development in their games does not mean that the Sedins are similarly limited. So if you find my argument weak then I suggest you make alterations to your own argument. I digress however, I have little to gain by debating this any further.

There are major difference between what you said and what I said.

What I said merely implied that what a coach says in July can easily change in October. Which is so true. Even if we sit here and map out the best possible line combination for the Leafs, we won't be able to say what Carlyle in an 82 game season and this is common knowledge.

What you said implies that there is an overall trend in the NHL where scoring players are being given more defensive responsibility, particularly on the PK. You then provided 5-6 examples. Yet there is observation bias (Wikipedia it if you don't know what it is) in that argument as even if you list 20 players, you will have not counted the number of players on which you "missed".

Btw - one could use your logic to say that Phil Kessel should eventually be used on the PK - which IMO is absurd.

I also asked you to back up your claims with a bet, as I see it as the easiest draft pick I will ever win in a bet in this league. Still waiting for a response on that.