Buffalo/Nashville

[armandtanzarian]

PS this is a fantasy hockey league, not a 12 year old girls curling club

Lol sometimes those lines are muddied in bbkl.

[kyuss]

Everyone here is just mad at Mik and his hypocracy as no GM has raised more stink in this league about previous GM's pilaging new GM's for the sake of their own gain over the leagues. Shep really nailed it on the head here imo.

care to share some links with us so that i can realize you're not talking out of your ass?
i'd be surprised if that was not the case tbh.

I've never been among the ones who act like they expect GMs to try to complete even deals for the sake of the league instead of the best possible deals for their teams, so those words would sound weird in my mouth. Heavy suspects you guys are putting words in mouth.

And calling out my supposed hypocrisy in this hypocrisy-party is definitely fitting

[Phion Keneuf]

You guys are extemely under-rating Etem. He's the first WHL to hit 60-goals in the last 11 seasons. He had 61 goals/107 points in 65 games. He has loads of speed and will be a good scoring top 6er.

It was a no-brainer for me, as I value Etem as much as I valued my pick.

no one is questioning Etems value or the value of BUF 1st if you are rebuilding. Simple fact is you could have gotten more. If that 2nd was a perifs based 3rd liner or something I would have been ok with it even.

Again Phion don't take offense to this. it is just in the past we have had GM's completely strip their teams of any valuable assets and that is why there is a strong reaction here. Everyone here is just mad at Mik and his hypocracy as no GM has raised more stink in this league about previous GM's pilaging new GM's for the sake of their own gain over the leagues. Shep really nailed it on the head here imo.

Its all good man, I don't really mind.

I'm happy with the deal, so that's all the counts to me tbh.

[shooker]

I dont have links as I have no access to the CC and don't care to go look in the Free Agency proposal threads or any others. I am all for Raping experienced gm's and doing whats right for your team but not when it is a new gm who doesn't know league value yet.

also mik, How are we being hypocrites when we have admitted what we did in the past was wrong and have attempted to right that? If we flat out said we have never done this then we would be hypocrites but that is clearly not what we are saying. You are calling us out for something we have admitted time and time again but no longer do and then go do it yourself. Just saying dude.

This is the last post I will write on the subject as Mik's hard headed nature will get me worked up and I do not wish to get aggrivated over an online league.

[Chris]

I have to have one word for the hypocrisy on here that Mik pointed out that half the people crying rape had there teams built by making incredibly one sided deals in their favors. I know teams like mine were absolutely dismantled at some point because of terrible trades, I inherited probably the worst team in the league because of that. But that's jsut what happens when you have a trady heavy league with some very smart gm's and others not so much,. Phion's a smart GM and Etem is a top prospect, I'm personally not a huge fan of Etem but being new to how "bbkl" values things I could see why he made this trade, in a few years from now his futures will probably be worth more than B Rich.

The problem is, it cripples your leverage. It took me months to regain my leverage -- ask Shiv, Shep, or even Kareem about why I choose to rip Vancouver down. Pretty close to the exact same reasoning Phion used. You lose your leverage, it becomes nearly impossible to trade as the better teams will look elsewhere to gain/eliminate cap or make trades to improve their team.

Mik raped the crap out of Phion. If any one else had Brad Richards, they would be demanding a top-six centre, Emerson Etem, and multiple draft picks. Or they would look for a fair one for one swap. If you want to see what kind of trades for players like Brad Richards can scrape up, you can look at this trade: http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7703 ... rom#p98882 -- a good example of how valuable a top-line centre can be.

And as a note for the league, I do not care if you think I am too invested. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, trying to show what's wrong with this league, and ensuring that people like Phion get the pleasure and excitement out of a trade that I used to get before the league's quality started plummeting after Scott and Kareem left. If you don't want me posting, ban me. Simple as that.

[shooker]

You guys are extemely under-rating Etem. He's the first WHL to hit 60-goals in the last 11 seasons. He had 61 goals/107 points in 65 games. He has loads of speed and will be a good scoring top 6er.

It was a no-brainer for me, as I value Etem as much as I valued my pick.

no one is questioning Etems value or the value of BUF 1st if you are rebuilding. Simple fact is you could have gotten more. If that 2nd was a perifs based 3rd liner or something I would have been ok with it even.

Again Phion don't take offense to this. it is just in the past we have had GM's completely strip their teams of any valuable assets and that is why there is a strong reaction here. Everyone here is just mad at Mik and his hypocracy as no GM has raised more stink in this league about previous GM's pilaging new GM's for the sake of their own gain over the leagues. Shep really nailed it on the head here imo.

Its all good man, I don't really mind.

I'm happy with the deal, so that's all the counts to me tbh.

good. thats how is should be. The peanut gallery (myself included) wont always like your trades but also aren't always right I've made plenty of trades people said I lost but clearly won now, unfortunately some the opposite as well. This is your team due as you see fit and have fun with it for sure.

[Robin Hood]

the league's quality started plummeting after Scott and Kareem left.

I like both of those guys, but this league is above any gm and will continue to be elite with or without anyone.

[Chris]

the league's quality started plummeting after Scott and Kareem left.

I like both of those guys, but this league is above any gm and will continue to be elite with or without anyone.

I agree, there's not a GM out there that's above any league. But they elicited discussions, trade talks, and so on and so forth. Not many liked them, but they kept the league interesting.

[Lee]

It's still interesting enough for you to stick around. Not that I'd be complaining if you left.

[Phion Keneuf]

You guys are extemely under-rating Etem. He's the first WHL to hit 60-goals in the last 11 seasons. He had 61 goals/107 points in 65 games. He has loads of speed and will be a good scoring top 6er.

It was a no-brainer for me, as I value Etem as much as I valued my pick.

no one is questioning Etems value or the value of BUF 1st if you are rebuilding. Simple fact is you could have gotten more. If that 2nd was a perifs based 3rd liner or something I would have been ok with it even.

Again Phion don't take offense to this. it is just in the past we have had GM's completely strip their teams of any valuable assets and that is why there is a strong reaction here. Everyone here is just mad at Mik and his hypocracy as no GM has raised more stink in this league about previous GM's pilaging new GM's for the sake of their own gain over the leagues. Shep really nailed it on the head here imo.

Its all good man, I don't really mind.

I'm happy with the deal, so that's all the counts to me tbh.

good. thats how is should be. The peanut gallery (myself included) wont always like your trades but also aren't always right I've made plenty of trades people said I lost but clearly won now, unfortunately some the opposite as well. This is your team due as you see fit and have fun with it for sure.

Yea, I like seeing feedback on deals, should be interesting to read back on this in a year or so. You guys can surely be right, but who knows

[kimmer]

yo shook man why didnt u jump in and be as warm as u are to phion when i get raped man?!?

[shooker]

yo shook man why didnt u jump in and be as warm as u are to phion when i get raped man?!?

lol no matter what I said you took offense and said I was trolling you. You always assumed I had something against you so I didn't bother lol

[Robin Hood]

the league's quality started plummeting after Scott and Kareem left.

I like both of those guys, but this league is above any gm and will continue to be elite with or without anyone.

I agree, there's not a GM out there that's above any league. But they elicited discussions, trade talks, and so on and so forth. Not many liked them, but they kept the league interesting.

We're doing just fine without them. I'd welcome them both back np though.

[Sensfanjosh]

I haven't been around long enough to really comment on past dealings or bad trades but just thought i would add something to the discussion: to the gms who previously took advantage of new guys and are seeking to change things, outside of the trade buddy system what exactly has changed? I'm not being a dick I'm genuinely asking what has been made different, as it seems kind of silly to change things after you've set yourself up nicely for the indefinite future too.

[Lee]

Wondering the same thing, Josh.

[shooker]

I haven't been around long enough to really comment on past dealings or bad trades but just thought i would add something to the discussion: to the gms who previously took advantage of new guys and are seeking to change things, outside of the trade buddy system what exactly has changed? I'm not being a dick I'm genuinely asking what has been made different, as it seems kind of silly to change things after you've set yourself up nicely for the indefinite future too.

as far as rules in place nothing. I know though when dealing with a new GM I always go to guys like shep or billy and ask their opinions on deals before making them to ensure it is fair. It's a concious effort not to rape the new guys. It's wayy different then back in the day when everyone wanted the home run deal. It is wayyyyy better than before, anyone here at the begining would have to agree with me.

[Robin Hood]

I haven't been around long enough to really comment on past dealings or bad trades but just thought i would add something to the discussion: to the gms who previously took advantage of new guys and are seeking to change things, outside of the trade buddy system what exactly has changed? I'm not being a dick I'm genuinely asking what has been made different, as it seems kind of silly to change things after you've set yourself up nicely for the indefinite future too.

There were a group of teams with horrible GMs - PHI, DAL and CGY in particular. BBKL waited way too long in making a change there. They kept getting raped over and over. But we've learned. SO that this doesn't happen to BUF, to WSH, to whoever else new we bring in. The trade buddy system is critical. I bet it saved your ass a couple of times too.

[kyuss]

also mik, How are we being hypocrites when we have admitted what we did in the past was wrong and have attempted to right that?

here are the things i found hypocrite http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8235 ... 40#p108007
like calling for a veto (this is happening today) for this deal, when you know this league have never vetoed any deals, not even the most blatantly one-sided deals, and afair you've never called for vetoes in the past.

If we flat out said we have never done this then we would be hypocrites but that is clearly not what we are saying. You are calling us out for something we have admitted time and time again but no longer do and then go do it yourself. Just saying dude.

i think the thing that was admitted to be wrong was harassing new GMs to get robbery deals done as soon as they entered the league. That was corrected as far as possible implementing the trade-buddy as a consistent rule. And i didn't harass anyone here, let alone during his trade freeze, so i don't think i did it myself even if you think the deal was a rape.
Yeah people can still put pressure on the newcomer during the freeze, but he is forced to take his time.. and again, this was certainly not the case anyway.

This is the last post I will write on the subject as Mik's hard headed nature will get me worked up and I do not wish to get aggrivated over an online league.

btw, i'm pleased to see you're not letting arguments get to you, it was frustrating when you quitted partly because of arguments that didn't even involve you directly.. definitely wouldn't want to see that happen again.

Also, imo arguments should not necessarily be seen as hate bearers.. i think even long ones should be possible without bringing hard feelings, that's how i like to look at this one.

[shooker]

I didn't quit because of you, I just almost didn't come back in the league. Very different.

[kyuss]

I didn't quit because of you, I just almost didn't come back in the league. Very different.

oh i know you didn't quit because of me, don't worry.

And in case it's ambiguous, i'm pleased you're here to stay.