Bet Payment to PIT from WSH

[Robin Hood]

Just to note, I did not mean to imply you could have these picks when 2014 picks became active. Maybe that's what Scott meant, but it's not cool with me. Regardless of the new GM in Washington these picks were not available to deal with. Why? For the very reason of GMs quitting. If we were to allow this, someone could trade away all their picks for years and years to come in "gentlemen's agreements" and quit the league. Not fair to new GMs.

The distinct difference here is that the bet was won and settled. I didn't make a bet with Kareem - and then settle it with Thom. I settled it with Kareem too but just didn't receive my payment due to logistics.

On top of that, this was not done to circumvent rules/screw a future gm. Thom received Kareem's TOp 5 BBKL team when he takes over. This bet that was settled anyways and just deferred should definitely be part of that as well.

[armandtanzarian]

I made a gentlemens agreement with Shoalzie to pay him a third in 2014 but i did not post anything anywhere publicly as i knew it was not right and possible not legal. He took the risk in trusting me and i did not disappoint. Not sure how this applies here except for the fact that maybe it should nto have been public considering the league owner and admin rejecting the trading of assets that far in the future?

[KapG]

Thom having to pay this debt would be retarded.

[Shoalzie]

Whether it is fair or not to the next guy, if two guys reached an agreement on a trade or with bet (as much as I don't agree that practice)...the terms should have to be carried out. Seems to me that those picks should be given to Shiv because he did win/earn them based on this bet. It was basically a done deal but just couldn't be executed until now.

I made a gentlemens agreement with Shoalzie to pay him a third in 2014 but i did not post anything anywhere publicly as i knew it was not right and possible not legal. He took the risk in trusting me and i did not disappoint. Not sure how this applies here except for the fact that maybe it should nto have been public considering the league owner and admin rejecting the trading of assets that far in the future?

Kyle is a straight shooter and I knew I could trust him to complete the full terms of our trade. Whether it should've been posted ahead of time, I guess that needs to be determined by the CC. I know there is a big stink or conditional trades and not being able to trade assets that don't actually exist or trade assets you don't have yet...basically, the "I'm good for it" condition.

[KapG]

He made a bet with Kareem. Not Thom.

Kareem is gone. Thom had no part of this and for that reason, him being forced to pay it off, would be retarded.

[Shoalzie]

He made a bet with Kareem. Not Thom.

Kareem is gone. Thom had no part of this and for that reason, him being forced to pay it off, would be retarded.

I would agree with you if this was a pending bet but the bet has happened and Shiv is due these picks.

I feel kinda bad that this got drudged up but I'm trying to track all these picks for the league and Shiv really never left the league...just took a hiatus...and he is due a payment of this bet that he made. While I don't exactly like bets involving actual BBKL assets, the league seems to allow them and if two guys/teams agree to a bet, it should be followed through.

To flip the script, what is Shiv lost the bet, would we be saying Thom shouldn't be able to collect?

[Chuck Norris]

The issue and possible results on deciding....when one makes a bet is it GM to GM or is it team to team. If its the former it should be void as Kareem left, the latter the deal should be honored.

My counterpoint to you Shiv saying new GMs inherit debts is: betting draft picks would be considered illegal in the real NHL.....yeah some GMs do place PERSONAL bets with other GMs on game outcomes and it usually involves wearing another team's jersey or something equally innocuous. If we follow true NHL standards the bet should be void as betting a teams assets is 100% illegal in the NHL.

The way I see it when you guys are making bets its between individual GMs and not team to team; ergo should be voided. Then again this is coming from the guy that refuses to ever bet with my teams assets...

[Shep]

He made a bet with Kareem. Not Thom.

Kareem is gone. Thom had no part of this and for that reason, him being forced to pay it off, would be retarded.

I would agree with you if this was a pending bet but the bet has happened and Shiv is due these picks.

I feel kinda bad that this got drudged up but I'm trying to track all these picks for the league and Shiv really never left the league...just took a hiatus...and he is due a payment of this bet that he made. While I don't exactly like bets involving actual BBKL assets, the league seems to allow them and if two guys/teams agree to a bet, it should be followed through.

To flip the script, what is Shiv lost the bet, would we be saying Thom shouldn't be able to collect?

Well, Shiv definitely DID quit. When he asked to come back, his team was still vacant so naturally he would just take it back.

http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7766&hilit=shiv+quit

[Shep]

The issue and possible results on deciding....when one makes a bet is it GM to GM or is it team to team. If its the former it should be void as Kareem left, the latter the deal should be honored.

My counterpoint to you Shiv saying new GMs inherit debts is: betting draft picks would be considered illegal in the real NHL.....yeah some GMs do place PERSONAL bets with other GMs on game outcomes and it usually involves wearing another team's jersey or something equally innocuous. If we follow true NHL standards the bet should be void as betting a teams assets is 100% illegal in the NHL.

The way I see it when you guys are making bets its between individual GMs and not team to team; ergo should be voided. Then again this is coming from the guy that refuses to ever bet with my teams assets...

Agreed.

[Robin Hood]

I don't want to argue about this anymore. I trust the CC to make a fair and unbiased decision. Thanks guys.

[Nick]

He made a bet with Kareem. Not Thom.

Kareem is gone. Thom had no part of this and for that reason, him being forced to pay it off, would be retarded.

I believe this is correct.

[armandtanzarian]

Your side holds just as much water as the other Shiv. Definitely a situation worth looking into and clarifying. Your a good man and whether on the good or bad side, you always argue a point logically and factually and never get into the useless personal attacks or degradation. Kudos to you for that...

[Chuck Norris]

Your side holds just as much water as the other Shiv. Definitely a situation worth looking into and clarifying. Your a good man and whether on the good or bad side, you always argue a point logically and factually and never get into the useless personal attacks or degradation. Kudos to you for that...

Hear hear!

[Lee]

Screw you Kyle.

[armandtanzarian]

Just for reference material, I can state that Lee made a thread in CC on July 3 asking when 2014 picks were Legal to be traded which kind of implies it was known that they were not eligible to be moved as of yet. An assumption, but it gives an idea.

[armandtanzarian]

Screw you Kyle.

Lol, I cant take you serious with that avatar.

[Lee]

Screw you Kyle.

Lol, I cant take you serious with that avatar.

That's good. You're not supposed to take me seriously.

[Nick]

We were very clear from the beginning that the betting lounge is not for team but rather GMs - initially supposed to be a cash wager portion of the BBKL that became use for asset betting - but no way does it carry over with the team. We didn't allow 2014 picks to be moveable until after our 2012 draft - and this is an example why.

[thom54]

woah there...didn't know about this at all. I can see both sides, and my input here would be extremely biased. I do however like Chuck's analysis about this league trying to replicate the NHL and thus betting team assets are a GM issue and not a team issue.... But once again I'm a partisan source and I'll let the CC decide for sure.

I will not be making retarded bets, that's for sure.

[Chris]

Just like Thom inherited Kareem's awesome assets when he took over as GM, he also inherits his bets and debts. You don't just take over Assets. You must also take over Liabilities. That's how it works in the real NHL when a team is sold to a new owner or a new GM takes over but a "conditional" pick is owed.

Null and voided buddy.

You quit, you forgo the pre-arranged assets you've had with another GM.

Broadly speaking here, I think there needs to be a rule here that forgives previous bets/asset payments when a GM quits. As far as I'm concerned, Thom owes nothing to Shiv, especially since Shiv quit in the first place.