hmmm I thought this was a given. NCCA compared to CHL

[Nick]

NCAA Div I >> CHL >>> USHL

Yes some conferences are harder then others (same is true in OHL/CHL/WHL and their divisions), however NCAA plays 50% inter-conference.

The players are 18-23 versus 16-20, with a restricted # of 20 year olds & imports, its much less dilute.


This came up in a convo with Billy, and I'm fine with his opinion on it, I just wasn't aware there was much debate on the topic. Getting TOI in NCAA is more difficult and the major risk with that route. However I believe the pluses out-weight the risks, superior coaching staff, facilities and some emphasis on non-hockey things, like growing up and being an adult (which does not occur in the CHL). Higher level of play, more video time and practicing. Not the long grind and lacking the playoff match-ups, that's a different sort of adjustment that NCAA-players will need to make. From what I've observed the play is MUCH MUCH more structured in NCAA and the players come out closer to NHL ready then the CHL.

Anyways, I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on the matter.

[MSP4LYFE]

The most talented players come out of the OHL, and it's not even close, not to mention that they play double the amount of games as college teams. On the flip side NCAA teams have far more practice time, and play against older competition.

[Scott]

The most talented players come out of the OHL, and it's not even close, not to mention that they play double the amount of games as college teams. On the flip side NCAA teams have far more practice time, and play against older competition.

This. But both definitely have their advantages!!

[Nick]

CHL is the faster route for top top end prospects no doubt. However as more and more americans become "top-end" I believe that will change.

[The BBKL Insider]

OHL > WHL > NCAA > QMJHL

and i'm a big fan of the Q (cause it's all we have here on the East )

[Nick]

IMO 17/20 OHL players wouldn't make an NCAA roster.

[The BBKL Insider]

IMO 17/20 OHL players wouldn't make an NCAA roster.

Possibility,

However, the players that would make it would dominate the NCAA.

the CHL has always produced higher end talent.

[MSP4LYFE]

IMO 17/20 OHL players wouldn't make an NCAA roster.

Thats due to age, not talent.

[Tony]

BTW is there anywhere online to watch CHL or NCAA games ... for freeeeeeeeee?

[Nick]

IMO 17/20 OHL players wouldn't make an NCAA roster.

Thats due to age, not talent.

The NCAA game is further developed then the CHL, it recruits from a MUCH larger area, has way bigger budgets, insane off-ice portion of the game and it offers more then just hockey development; its a higher level of hockey.

That's not saying its perfect or anything, or that it's pro level. It lacks the rigours schedule and hatred breeding playoff-series, but there are hotly contested rivalries. However the tight systems play and fewer # of games mean each is more important, which brings a more consistent showing, or at least emphasis on consistency. Watching a good NCAA game rivals that of two good AHL teams, now, neither has the skills level found in the memorial cup final (or OHL final as it's been in recent years) or two of the good WJC teams, but I'll stand by that its more difficult and meaningful to be a good NCAA player then CHL.

BTW is there anywhere online to watch CHL or NCAA games ... for freeeeeeeeee?

http://www.atdhe.net/ will have lots of them, at least the big games.
justin.tv will also carry some, but finding the right link can be more difficult.

[Robin Hood]

The most talented players come out of the OHL, and it's not even close, not to mention that they play double the amount of games as college teams. On the flip side NCAA teams have far more practice time, and play against older competition.

IMO 17/20 OHL players wouldn't make an NCAA roster.

Thats due to age, not talent.

this.

chl players simply have higher odds of making an impact at the nhl level. if you analyzed statistics over the course of history of both leagues, the percentage of players that make it from the NCAA would be definitely lower than the OHL or QMJHL. I think that speaks for itself. as far as the idea that the NCAA has a better infrastructure, it not like CHL teams do not provide their players with all the tools to develop into NHL players. clearly there is enough money invested in players there. the stats speak for themselves.

[Nick]

so your saying what shiv?

[bills09]

all im saying if i have a high end prospect id rather him in the chl than the ncaa, if its a project prospect, ncaa would be the better route as there is a longer period before needing to be signed.

[inferno31]

Average skill level - NCAA wins hands down over the CHL, given the age, structure of the game etc.
Top end Talent - CHL wins hands down. Its the product you see too, all successful teams are top heavy in the CHL and as Nick said most of the other guys wouldn't make a NCAA team.

What you missing is simple. If you are a top end player the CHL is the way to go, boost numbers get drafted high work out minor kinks. Very importantly though be able to attend PROSPECT Camps and TRAINING camps. If you have minor kinks and are top 6/top 4 bound on your NHL team its worth the team being able to see where you are and work on making you NHL ready.
If you are a middle tier prospect your best bet is the NCAA, play against more mature players and you are more of a project, work on your skills and hone them till you are closer to the NHL level. Most top NCAA players leave before their 4th year as they progress through development, at that point they sign pro contracts spend 1-2 years in the AHL and make the jump.

So in terms of average player skill NCAA wins no doubt, in terms of high end talent and NHL potential of said high end talent its the CHL.

The US National development program though is making some stars for certain, but again top end talent.

[Nick]

I think the NCAA has had fewer players picked from it, but that doesn't mean is not a better route, some of their #'s can be seen in the popularity as a rise in Jr. A players, who are eligible to become NCAA players.

IMO top end is changing....

Zach Parise
Phil Kessel
Tj Oshie
Johnny Toews
JJ
EJ
Paul Stastny
Matt Niskanen
Jimmy Howard
David Booth - x youngest cat i could think of x -
Jonathan Quick
Ryan Miller -x not young but notable, and dunno who else on buffalo is NCAA -
Mike Cammaleri -x not listing ryan o'byrne, but maybe Leblanc will be here a few years from now x-
Jonathan Quick
Kyle Okposo
Brian Elliott -x sucks x-
James van Riemsdyk
Blake Wheeler
Joe Pavelski
Ryan Kesler

I just tried to think of NCAAers on each NHL team... and they are there... and they are typically young, regarded as top end stuff.... elliott seems like a stretch

I don't remember where I read the report, but from 95-05 NCAA was tied with the OHL as safest place to draft from, in terms of player becoming an NHLer (both around 20%, of note Russia was sub 10%), and from 03-07 it is the run away winner (27% already, while the 2nd place was at 18%, of note I believe Russia was around 5%). I believe WHL, OHL & NCAA (I believe Jr.A w/NCAA intentions is counted) have dominated first round selections since the lockout.

[Robin Hood]

I think the NCAA has had fewer players picked from it, but that doesn't mean is not a better route, some of their #'s can be seen in the popularity as a rise in Jr. A players, who are eligible to become NCAA players.

IMO top end is changing....

Zach Parise
Phil Kessel
Tj Oshie
Johnny Toews
JJ
EJ
Paul Stastny
Matt Niskanen
Jimmy Howard
David Booth - x youngest cat i could think of x -
Jonathan Quick
Ryan Miller -x not young but notable, and dunno who else on buffalo is NCAA -
Mike Cammaleri -x not listing ryan o'byrne, but maybe Leblanc will be here a few years from now x-
Jonathan Quick
Kyle Okposo
Brian Elliott -x sucks x-
James van Riemsdyk
Blake Wheeler
Joe Pavelski
Ryan Kesler

I just tried to think of NCAAers on each NHL team... and they are there... and they are typically young, regarded as top end stuff.... elliott seems like a stretch

I don't remember where I read the report, but from 95-05 NCAA was tied with the OHL as safest place to draft from, in terms of player becoming an NHLer (both around 20%, of note Russia was sub 10%), and from 03-07 it is the run away winner (27% already, while the 2nd place was at 18%, of note I believe Russia was around 5%). I believe WHL, OHL & NCAA (I believe Jr.A w/NCAA intentions is counted) have dominated first round selections since the lockout.

im sure if i made a list it would be FAR more extensive for NHL players from the CHL.

[MSP4LYFE]

Average skill level - NCAA wins hands down over the CHL, given the age, structure of the game etc.
Top end Talent - CHL wins hands down. Its the product you see too, all successful teams are top heavy in the CHL and as Nick said most of the other guys wouldn't make a NCAA team.

What you missing is simple. If you are a top end player the CHL is the way to go, boost numbers get drafted high work out minor kinks. Very importantly though be able to attend PROSPECT Camps and TRAINING camps. If you have minor kinks and are top 6/top 4 bound on your NHL team its worth the team being able to see where you are and work on making you NHL ready.
If you are a middle tier prospect your best bet is the NCAA, play against more mature players and you are more of a project, work on your skills and hone them till you are closer to the NHL level. Most top NCAA players leave before their 4th year as they progress through development, at that point they sign pro contracts spend 1-2 years in the AHL and make the jump.

So in terms of average player skill NCAA wins no doubt, in terms of high end talent and NHL potential of said high end talent its the CHL.

The US National development program though is making some stars for certain, but again top end talent.

Well said.

[shooker]

Average skill level - NCAA wins hands down over the CHL, given the age, structure of the game etc.
Top end Talent - CHL wins hands down. Its the product you see too, all successful teams are top heavy in the CHL and as Nick said most of the other guys wouldn't make a NCAA team.

What you missing is simple. If you are a top end player the CHL is the way to go, boost numbers get drafted high work out minor kinks. Very importantly though be able to attend PROSPECT Camps and TRAINING camps. If you have minor kinks and are top 6/top 4 bound on your NHL team its worth the team being able to see where you are and work on making you NHL ready.
If you are a middle tier prospect your best bet is the NCAA, play against more mature players and you are more of a project, work on your skills and hone them till you are closer to the NHL level. Most top NCAA players leave before their 4th year as they progress through development, at that point they sign pro contracts spend 1-2 years in the AHL and make the jump.

So in terms of average player skill NCAA wins no doubt, in terms of high end talent and NHL potential of said high end talent its the CHL.

The US National development program though is making some stars for certain, but again top end talent.

I agree, very well put and exactly how I feel about this argument. On another note, I dont know how you can say the ncaa coacher are better nick, so many chl coached turn into nhl coaches. I realize it happens with ncaa coaches as well but not as frequently. IMO there is more discrepany between chl coaches and some programs are weeker than others but by no means are these coaches inferior to those of the NCAA in general. For instant, the CHL has people like Brian Kilrea who consistantly put out very complete players.

[The BBKL Insider]

IMO top end is changing....

Zach Parise
Phil Kessel
Tj Oshie
Johnny Toews
JJ
EJ
Paul Stastny
Matt Niskanen
Jimmy Howard
David Booth - x youngest cat i could think of x -
Jonathan Quick
Ryan Miller -x not young but notable, and dunno who else on buffalo is NCAA -
Mike Cammaleri -x not listing ryan o'byrne, but maybe Leblanc will be here a few years from now x-
Jonathan Quick
Kyle Okposo
Brian Elliott -x sucks x-
James van Riemsdyk
Blake Wheeler
Joe Pavelski
Ryan Kesler

CHL (same time period)

Sidney Crosby
Jason Spezza
Steven Weiss
Rick Nash
Jay-bo
M.A. Fleury
Eric Staal
Dion Phaneuf
Ryan Getzlaf
Cory Perry (2003 was a big year)
Mike Green
Bobby Ryan
Devin Setoguich
Marc Staal
Steve Downie
Jordan Staal
Claude Giroux
Patty Kane
Jakub Voracek
Steven Stamkos
Drew Doughty
Luke Schenn
Tyler Myers
Luca Sbisa
Jordan Eberle
John Tavares
Matt Duchene
Evander Kane
Brayden Schenn
Nazem Kadri
Taylor Hall


i'll stick with the CHL

[Shep]

Russia.

Malkin and Ovechkin.

Case closed.