BBKL GM Vote (Yes or No): Adding PPTOI from 2014/2015

[bills09]

What Billy said. I could live with losing GWG. SO I think are necessary to keep...

progress?

[bills09]

Replacing GWG with PPTOI is the best option imo, as it doesnt hurt goaltenders and improves a cat focused on offensive players without taking anything away from other positions.

[Shoalzie]

Here's my overall take on the stats we use...

Situational stats like special teams points and SHTOI are nice measures of playing in more than just even strength situations. I'd even argue that even strength stats should be kept seperate from power play and shorthanded stats. We could almost have seperate goals, assists, (and points) and TOI for even strength, power play and shorthanded and then you'd eliminate redundancy with scoring stats between total points and special teams points. To have even strength stats, it would reward having "top 6 forwards" or "top 2 or 4 defensemen" that play on a regular basis. The bottom 6 forwards and third pair will collect those stats but not nearly as much as the guys who play more.

We include blocked shots, hits, faceoff wins and shots on goal...all stats that measure involvement in the game. I wish we had giveaways and takeaways as a way to measure puck responsibility. Penalty minutes is such an odd stat in fantasy...you don't want penalties in actual hockey but we use them as a cumulative stat where if you have the most, you win...almost think it should be opposite of that.

As for GWG, it's a good stat in that is shows you positively impacted a game but in a 1-0 game, you could have collected that GWG in the first minute of a game. Sometimes it's just a coincidence that you scored the game winner because you put your team up 4-1 and you gave up 2 goals before the end of the game. A game winner in the truest sense would be an OT goal or just scoring a goal in the third when the game is tied to put you ahead...a truly clutch GWG.

For goalies, I wish we could eliminate SHTOI...it's a given that you're on the ice while you're shorthanded and it really skews the totals. All it says is that you play for a team that is undisciplined...not really a goalie stat. Leave the other stats alone though...losses as a negative stat would the only one I'd put a bid in on including.

[KapG]

losses as a negative is interesting and would increase the value of goalies, which some have argued are slightly undervalued iirc.

[Tony]

Don't care .. I just want an odd numbet of categories to eliminate ties.

[Robin Hood]

Losses is a terrible stat for goalies because the team that wins the "Wins" category will often take the "Loses" category as a double win

[Shoalzie]

Having the most wins doesn't guarantee you'll win the loss category. Let's say for instance, a team (Team A) has 4 goalie GP in a week versus a team where their goalies play just twice (Team B). Team A's goalies won 3 games and lost 1 and Team B went 2-0...Team A would win the wins and Team B would win the losses.

[Lee]

Goalie cats are very start-based. I think saves would be better than losses.

[shooker]

In year one we had saves, ryan miller and craig anderson were the two best players in bbkl. Thankfully i had anderson. Got him for a 3rd round + trevor cann before the season started . I liked it but most felt it valued goaltending too much. I feel it adds value to great goalies that play for bad teams. As of now goalie stats are more team based then actually judged on their own merrit. Just my opinion on that.

I really dislike losses. Shoalzie the scenario you outlined could happen but its the exception not the rule. Both teams have three gp team A wins the win cat, they automatically win losses as well. Not a fan of that stat, too often a double win.

[Robin Hood]

Shoalzie the scenario you outlined could happen but its the exception not the rule. Both teams have three gp team A wins the win cat, they automatically win losses as well. Not a fan of that stat, too often a double win.

This.

[kimmer]

!Support

I have officially decided: if we don't make this stat change by 2014-2015, I will quit bbkl. This shits gonna be revolutionary and ya'll just hating

[Shoalzie]

Saves are an okay idea...rewards goalies who actually are playing on a regular basis.

Shoalzie the scenario you outlined could happen but its the exception not the rule. Both teams have three gp team A wins the win cat, they automatically win losses as well. Not a fan of that stat, too often a double win.

This.

Having a beef with double wins...where's the complaint of the double (or triple) win where you win goals and assists AND points?

Speaking of cheap wins, is it any worse than a team having a single shutout or a single GWG to win those categories in a week? More times than not, that's all that it takes.

[kimmer]

Hey stupids, leave SO alone. Stop saying shit like omg if u get one shutout u win all goalie cat. It's untrue. The fact that you worked hard to attain a goalie of a calibre that can produce shutouts more often and reaping the benefit of winning the categories outweigh way more than having a Justin peters getting a back to back shutout in one week which happens once in a blue moon. This should be an accepted fact that better goalies will produce more shutouts on average over time. Wsh pummeled me 16-0 cuz rinne shutout twice one week. I had kipper. What the Fuck you want... That's a loss I can tolerate. I don't have better goalie than Thom does

Talking about taking out shutout is the core factor in which will DEVALUE SOME OF THE ELITE GOALIES IN THIS LEAGUE. FUCK YOU

[shooker]

Having a beef with double wins...where's the complaint of the double (or triple) win where you win goals and assists AND points?

Speaking of cheap wins, is it any worse than a team having a single shutout or a single GWG to win those categories in a week? More times than not, that's all that it takes.

it happens quite often, I'd wager most weeks, that teams win two out of the three point stats and not all of them. The key is there you have to win G + A to sweep all three and you have to do rather well in both to get win points, to me that is apples and oranges.

I will go as far to say as it is very similar to our current goalie stats. It is often the case when your goalie wins more games that you also take at least one of, if not both GAA and SV%. Teams that win more games over the week also tend to allow less goals during that time. This isn't always true of course but it is common. A lot of our stats tie in together but that is needed to emulate the fact that they go hand in hand in real life. Both Goalie stats and skater stats.

[shooker]

note I do realize you can win both SV% and GAA without taking wins and the same cannot be said about G/A with points but it is rare.

[Shoalzie]

All I'm saying is that it's not a giving that you'd win both wins and losses every week if someone is going to use the argument that it's a given a team that takes wins will have the fewest losses. Teams can win GWG even if they lose on goals. Some stats correlate more with some stats than with others. Wins and losses might not always coincide if you're not using goalies from two different teams and neither guy gets a decision in a game for an entire week. It's a matter of factoring into the result of the game...either a goalie wins a game or they lose...but they can also just appear in a relief role and get neither.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not going to go all Bill Daly and say "losses is the hill I'll die on". I'm just sparking debate and dialog since we're talking new stat categories.

[The BBKL Insider]

seems like progress is being made

i will bring this up in the CC within a day or 2, pretty burried at work atm

[shooker]

fair enough, I just don't see the upside to that stat being very great. I am all for discussion and new suggestions though as it is constructive. So good on you for thinking outside the box. It hadn't been suggested before.

[Chuck Norris]

For what its worth I enjoy GWG and SO. I dont know how many times I've had both wins, losses or ties with a random GWG or SO out of no where. I've found myself rooting for those rare cats from time to time and I've always found the random chance associated with them to be quite exciting. As far as I'm concerned its about as fair of cats as you can find. Because they are such random stats everyone has a shot every week to win them. I dont like the idea of losing either of them.

[The BBKL Insider]

random is weak chuck

pptoi gives you something to build towards IMO, another creative stat for a GM to plan his/her week around.