Take FWIW

[Lee]

I got an idea, why dont the people who are obsessed with fantasy drafts and trading join a Yahoo pool and go crazy instead of punishing the majority of good GMS who did right by rewarding the few moron GMS who did wrong (most are gone now). IMO this would take away alot of credibility this league has built up. I would support cutting the amount of teams in the league to 26 before i would propose a restart. Bottom 4 teams get dispersed. Sounds pretty stupid but why ruin an entire league of 30 teams because of say 5 teams that made stupid trades? If league parity is the main issue then other ideas might need to be explored to fix past errors. In saying that it would go against everything that BBKL is supposed to resemble. As close as possible to the real NHL in a fantasy format.

I don't speak for all of the bottom 5 teams, but atleast I can speak for my own. I was handed the worst team that was screwed over by multiple past GMs. Parity in the league will not exist for years in the current state because of previous GMs trading away assets for pennies on the dollar. Personally, I don't care one way or another if a reset happens. I like rebuilding. I like the assets I've acquired over time and I like watching the players develop.

[Florida Chris]

I think this league is a lot better off then most think, take my lonely Florida Panthers for example. Yes on paper they suck, but they actually could be a year or sooner away from seriously competing if I want. I believe I am a first line, and a goalie away from competing. I have some top level prospects and a bunch of good prospects and picks. I believe I could easily turn a few of these assets into a stud or two, and start competing by as early as next season.

Kareem why don't you just start another leauge...Im sure most of us would join

[MSP4LYFE]

[

Who is punishing anyone, or forcing the issue? We are, or were having a rational, well reasoned argument.

Also your point is flat out inaccurate, the majority of managers are currently being punished for the uneven distribution of assets in this league, not vice versa. Open your eyes Kyle, there are a handful of teams that will ever do anything in this league, and at least half that are looking at basement dwelling for the very foreseeable future.

Easy there bud, take your own advice.

Please Nick, I would LOVE for you to point out where I said or acted otherwise...

[Shep]

I got an idea, why dont the people who are obsessed with fantasy drafts and trading join a Yahoo pool and go crazy instead of punishing the majority of good GMS who did right by rewarding the few moron GMS who did wrong (most are gone now). IMO this would take away alot of credibility this league has built up. I would support cutting the amount of teams in the league to 26 before i would propose a restart. Bottom 4 teams get dispersed. Sounds pretty stupid but why ruin an entire league of 30 teams because of say 5 teams that made stupid trades? If league parity is the main issue then other ideas might need to be explored to fix past errors. In saying that it would go against everything that BBKL is supposed to resemble. As close as possible to the real NHL in a fantasy format.

Pretty sure we all knew this would never happen.

This discussion in general though, maybe it develops into ideas on how to give the lower teams a chance to move up faster. Teams like PHI and DET were destroyed by previous GMs. Both have done a good job trying to accumulate as many assets as possible, but that doesn't mean the teams aren't still in shambles. I'm glad they are still interested and addicted to the league and determined to make their teams better. But that doesn't change the fact that they are still 5+ years away from having a shot (because when you start with so few assets, you pretty much HAVE to draft your players).

[MSP4LYFE]

Kareem why don't you just start another leauge...Im sure most of us would join

I'm not interested in participating in multiple leagues.

[armandtanzarian]

I got an idea, why dont the people who are obsessed with fantasy drafts and trading join a Yahoo pool and go crazy instead of punishing the majority of good GMS who did right by rewarding the few moron GMS who did wrong (most are gone now). IMO this would take away alot of credibility this league has built up. I would support cutting the amount of teams in the league to 26 before i would propose a restart. Bottom 4 teams get dispersed. Sounds pretty stupid but why ruin an entire league of 30 teams because of say 5 teams that made stupid trades? If league parity is the main issue then other ideas might need to be explored to fix past errors. In saying that it would go against everything that BBKL is supposed to resemble. As close as possible to the real NHL in a fantasy format.

Pretty sure we all knew this would never happen.

This discussion in general though, maybe it develops into ideas on how to give the lower teams a chance to move up faster. Teams like PHI and DET were destroyed by previous GMs. Both have done a good job trying to accumulate as many assets as possible, but that doesn't mean the teams aren't still in shambles. I'm glad they are still interested and addicted to the league and determined to make their teams better. But that doesn't change the fact that they are still 5+ years away from having a shot (because when you start with so few assets, you pretty much HAVE to draft your players).

I have no problems with discussing ideas to assist this league in equaling some of the parity.

[Nick]

Dude, you said rational argument then made personal attacks... and you dismissed his points as if they were without merit or consideration.


IDEA!!!! -> Go start your own new league Kareem ?


I believe many of you are underplaying the impact each GM had on their current team... sure it might be exaggerated due to the crazy start, but really... over time (and not 5-7 years as your suggesting) the same point will be reached.

[MSP4LYFE]

Dude, you said rational argument then made personal attacks... and you dismissed his points as if they were without merit or consideration.


IDEA!!!! -> Go start your own new league Kareem ?


I believe many of you are underplaying the impact each GM had on their current team... sure it might be exaggerated due to the crazy start, but really... over time (and not 5-7 years as your suggesting) the same point will be reached.

Ergo "were."

I responded to the implication that I was trying to "punish" good managers, with that post, and even then what I said was FAR from a personal attack.

Reading comprehension is a rarity these days.

[Lee]

Dude, you said rational argument then made personal attacks... and you dismissed his points as if they were without merit or consideration.


IDEA!!!! -> Go start your own new league Kareem ?


I believe many of you are underplaying the impact each GM had on their current team... sure it might be exaggerated due to the crazy start, but really... over time (and not 5-7 years as your suggesting) the same point will be reached.

Some might argue that it will take years for some teams to compete against the upper tier teams as they exist now, nevermind the fact that those teams continue to improve and have the assets to do so more promptly than the lower tier teams.

[Topher]

I just want to say that you don't build credibility by taking down stupidity if the league stays the way it is then fine, but to say to restart is taking away gms credibility is wrong, to build credibility you must do it against credible people imo.

[MSP4LYFE]

IDEA!!!! -> Go start your own new league Kareem ?

If I start my own league, I'd be quitting this one, never been a multi league guy. Obviously that isn't the goal here, it is to seek improvement to an important issue. Seems like your the one taking this personally.

[armandtanzarian]

I got an idea, why dont the people who are obsessed with fantasy drafts and trading join a Yahoo pool and go crazy instead of punishing the majority of good GMS who did right by rewarding the few moron GMS who did wrong (most are gone now). IMO this would take away alot of credibility this league has built up. I would support cutting the amount of teams in the league to 26 before i would propose a restart. Bottom 4 teams get dispersed. Sounds pretty stupid but why ruin an entire league of 30 teams because of say 5 teams that made stupid trades? If league parity is the main issue then other ideas might need to be explored to fix past errors. In saying that it would go against everything that BBKL is supposed to resemble. As close as possible to the real NHL in a fantasy format.

Who is punishing anyone, or forcing the issue? We are, or were having a rational, well reasoned argument.

Also your point is flat out inaccurate, the majority of managers are currently being punished for the uneven distribution of assets in this league, not vice versa. Open your eyes Kyle, there are a handful of teams that will ever do anything in this league, and at least half that are looking at basement dwelling for the very foreseeable future.

Your right, no one is punishing, it was meant to be literal. For example that is what i would feel like if i was told we are hitting the reset button. And I am still partaking in a reasonable thought out discussion and it should stay that way.

Please explain to me the bolded part in your above statement. The majority of managers are being punished because there are good teams in the league like the Devils? So why doesn't the Florida Panthers in the real NHL call for a redraft? When they look at the Flyers they must feel the same way, no? That was sarcastic, but you get my drift.

[MSP4LYFE]

I got an idea, why dont the people who are obsessed with fantasy drafts and trading join a Yahoo pool and go crazy instead of punishing the majority of good GMS who did right by rewarding the few moron GMS who did wrong (most are gone now). IMO this would take away alot of credibility this league has built up. I would support cutting the amount of teams in the league to 26 before i would propose a restart. Bottom 4 teams get dispersed. Sounds pretty stupid but why ruin an entire league of 30 teams because of say 5 teams that made stupid trades? If league parity is the main issue then other ideas might need to be explored to fix past errors. In saying that it would go against everything that BBKL is supposed to resemble. As close as possible to the real NHL in a fantasy format.

Who is punishing anyone, or forcing the issue? We are, or were having a rational, well reasoned argument.

Also your point is flat out inaccurate, the majority of managers are currently being punished for the uneven distribution of assets in this league, not vice versa. Open your eyes Kyle, there are a handful of teams that will ever do anything in this league, and at least half that are looking at basement dwelling for the very foreseeable future.

Your right, no one is punishing, it was meant to be literal. For example that is what i would feel like if i was told we are hitting the reset button. And I am still partaking in a reasonable thought out discussion and it should stay that way.

Please explain to me the bolded part in your above statement. The majority of managers are being punished because there are good teams in the league like the Devils? So why doesn't the Florida Panthers in the real NHL call for a redraft? When they look at the Flyers they must feel the same way, no? That was sarcastic, but you get my drift.

You need not feel that way, as I said in the very first post of this thread, if even one manager disagrees there CANNOT be a restart. It's not fair or respectful to each general manager, I understand that.

[KapG]

I see no one has commented on the issue that rosters in the NHL RIGHT NOW, are not close to being even (or they did and i missed it). So a restart does nothing really to fix the parity. Look at teams like Ottawa, Floria, the Sens and toronto etc in real life...not much there IMO..



Ps. It's a deal Kareem, if we restart (which hopefully doesnt happen, would be a huge kick to the nuts and I am not even one of the top end teams) you can start with my rags and I'll take your caps .

[MSP4LYFE]

Please explain to me the bolded part in your above statement. The majority of managers are being punished because there are good teams in the league like the Devils? So why doesn't the Florida Panthers in the real NHL call for a redraft? When they look at the Flyers they must feel the same way, no? That was sarcastic, but you get my drift.

There are measures to ensure parity in the real NHL, for most teams, not all, namely: UFA, cap (real life dollars), players opting out etc. We cannot implement any of those measures, so when a few teams dominate, in our league it is very few, the chances of it changing are slim.

Another issue is that all NHL GM's are intelligent and qualified for their role, not the case in this league. There is, quite clearly, a varying degree of hockey knowledge in this league. I'm really just trying to find the best possible solution, if any to improving parity. Again, not trying to force a restart on anyone.

[Lee]

I wouldn't mind flipping teams with one of the lower ranked teams if we did a reset.

[Shep]

I wouldn't mind flipping teams with one of the lower ranked teams if we did a reset.

0 chance there's a reset.

[Nick]

Sorry. Whole point of a keeper league is to not reset.



Now if we can move on to helping increase parity in the league, or a specific method of decreasing the turn around time in a semi-logical manner:

i)- SC finalists lose 1 of top 5 salaries (their choice) + 1 player who's # is chosen by random number generator. 1/3 Top Salaries is awarded to 30th place team, rdn# is sent to waiver draft... trickle down, 29th gets SC loser. Note: only SC champ loses 2 players.

i)- Conference finals losers, lose 1 of salary range 2-6.

ii) *separate idea* SC finalist gets lower cap for next season ? 2M for cup, 1M for loser and 2 Conference finalists

-- sorry not sure where i was at... had to deal with students.... ugghhh...undergrads are such a fucking headache... if you are one ... read your god damn syllabus.




This brings top 4 down, several implications for real-life examples, and bottom 4 teams are given pieces.... although the UFA market is no where near as rich as this would be... perhaps larger salary range is needed (1-10 and 2-11 for example).

HOWEVER. this SERIOUSLY promotes tanking and the concept of 'rebuilding' is what got so many GMs in the situation they are now. Need to consider implications and MUCH harsher anti-tanking clauses... as in #1 team keeps assets if #30 misses any of the regulations...


I believe this concept is underplaying the impact of the salary cap. I know Scott had to tear down last year and rebuild big time... however his superior trading simply owned the shit out of most GMs, allowing him to be right back at the top.

For me this year I'm dealing with 3M raise on Giroux, 3M on JJ, 1M on Daley waiting on Weber and Wiz (both project to be sizeable) as well as Sutter & Wheeler who are wild cards for contracts and 2 UFA goalies... opportunity to get some proven assets and (honestly) excellent h2h players is there... To be clear... looking @ 3+3+1+2.5+1.5+1.5+.8+?+? = 13M+ in raises. Does this mean I'll make blatantly bad trades? no... didn't build this team by doing that... but it is a chance to 'win' deals versus my current team, especially value wise, and easily make teams w/cap to spend better.

[armandtanzarian]

oh dear. I am going to bow out of this discussion until the off season. I am still in the playoffs and hope to move on. The thought of me giving up a Kesler/Iginla/Zetterberg/Krejci/Seabrook/Getzlaf as a penalty because i made good trades and did well in the playoffs makes me want to throw up. So I will enter this discussion later...

[anton]

there is nothing to discuss.

it's complete re-start or bust. there is no fair/logical way of just giving bottom teams assets.

and because there is no way in hell all 30 GMs agree to a re-start, we'll just have to move on.

it's not like the bottom teams are fleeing the league anyway.