What are you all complaining about?

[MSP4LYFE]

you are talking about something COMPLETELY different from what I am.

What you are saying is that Burke will be judged on this deal based on what happens with Seguin.
What I am saying is that regardless of how he is judged, the DECISION was correct.

Burke could technically end up being fired because of that trade. But it will be because of the PERCEPTION of the decision not its ACCURACY.

I am debating you're argument that anyone who dislikes the Kessel trade is an idiot, not that this deal was the right move at the time.

[Robin Hood]

The trick is not getting fired after your fifth coin toss But hey Mike Milbury got to flip the full million it seems.

that's where PR comes in. Burke could get fired because of that trade due to public perception.

In Mike Milburys case, he took the $1 side on every coin toss. Nothing can really save an idiot.

[Robin Hood]

I am debating you're argument that anyone who dislikes the Kessel trade is an idiot, not that this deal was the right move at the time.

Logically, you can never dislike a correct decision made. You can dislike the unlikely, unlucky outcome. But you cannot dislike the decision. Moreover, to say that Burke made a bad trade due to the unlikely, unlucky outcome is indeed very idiotic.

[MSP4LYFE]

Logically, you can never dislike a correct decision made. You can dislike the unlikely, unlucky outcome. But you cannot dislike the decision. Moreover, to say that Burke made a bad trade due to the unlikely, unlucky outcome is indeed very idiotic.

I agree in theory, but we both know that's not how deals are judged in practice.

[Nick]

easy there nerdoids.


Seguin would suit us more then Kessel currently, and I'd love to have our 1st and Jared Knight...LOL... but thats not how the cookie crumbled, and I'm not one for complaining about the past.


I fucking hope the leafs finish ahead of:

Atlanta
NYI
NYR
Montreal (this is a must, as 4 teams from the northeast might be making the playoffs)
Florida
Carolina (this might require Ward getting hurt...again)
Tampa Bay
& maybe even the Sabres... but that would mean we have a few things bounce our way.


IMO all of the above teams have issues on their blue line, the thrashers have literally no one, ditto with NYI, NYR has Staal and garardi and MDZ although he was brutal to end the year, Montreal is relying on a rookie, Florida might be as well, Carolina has piks and no one else, TBL are exactly short back there... and buffalo lost their #2 & #3 this past offseason... aside from TBL and Buffalo none of these teams have power house type offence, and aside from NYR & Buffalo none of them have upper end goaltending.


hence 7th.... is my dream, 8th is acceptable...anything less and it's really becoming an old story. although the 2011 UFA class is UNREAL.

[Arian The Insider]

We just finished 29th Overall and are likely going to finish bottom 5 again next season. There is change, yes, but we still suck.

Komisarek @ $4.5 million. Not a good signing.

Armstrong @ $3 million. Not a good signing.

Kubina for Exelby + Prospect. Awful trade. I don't care if it was for cap space, I'd take Kubina over Komisarek every day of the week and twice on Sunday. He is offensive and is JUST AS GOOD as Komisarek defensively.

Stalberg + Didomenico + Paradis for Versteeg. While I personally like the trade, it is extremely short-sighted. Stalberg could easily turn into a player as good or better than Versteeg, plus with everything else we gave up.

1st in 2010 + 2nd in 2010 + 1st in 2011 for Phil Kessel. Anybody that thinks this is still a fantastic trade, needs to put down the glass of kool-aid and take a breathe. We have given up Tyler Seguin, who looks to be an elite prospect for the Bruins. Jared Knight, who once again looks to be a pretty damn good prospect. Not to mention the potential of another top 5 pick next year. Until Kessel scores 40+ goals and gets 80+ points, this trade is a loss and could be one of the bigger trade busts in Leaf history.

We have $27,775,000 million locked up in our defence. Brian Burke is once again, like in Anaheim, proving he is bad at cap management.

I am fine with what Burke has done so far, but to call his work fantastic is Leaf bias to the max.

I'll leave it at that because I know I'll have to back up some arguments and don't want to get into too many at the same time.

i agree 110%. I think Burke is a very good GM but he isn't perfect and has made a few potentially bad moves himself.

[Nick]

I'd just like to say that I really disagree with the comments regarding Komi & Colby as bad signings... Our win % with Komi & Kessel in the lineup was really good... and its no surprise really... a defensive specialist and an offensive sniper in the same line up make us stronger at both ends of the rink. IMO Colby adds some punch to our forwards that was seriously lacking, he's good for 15goal 40 pts and a couple of knock-out hits... and you know he'll up his belligerence factor on a Burke team.


Was watching all the players comments of the NON-kaberle trade... and I'm pretty sure despite my dream of a Luke & Dion Pairing, the top 4 will be:
Phaneuf-Komi
Kaberle- Schenn

I think I like these 4 matched almost any which way.... really makes our top 4 compare with anyone in the league by keeping Tomass.

[armandtanzarian]

alright...there is way too much Leaf Jizz all over this thread. I'm outta here.

[Nick]

alright...there is way too much Leaf Jizz all over this thread. I'm outta here.

Easy there, almost all of us are pumping up the air in your tires as well.

Lock for the div IMO, potentially the east, depends how you shuffle some salary because you have moves coming with both Chara and Bergeon hitting UFA next season.

[MSP4LYFE]

I'd just like to say that I really disagree with the comments regarding Komi & Colby as bad signings... Our win % with Komi & Kessel in the lineup was really good... and its no surprise really... a defensive specialist and an offensive sniper in the same line up make us stronger at both ends of the rink. IMO Colby adds some punch to our forwards that was seriously lacking, he's good for 15goal 40 pts and a couple of knock-out hits... and you know he'll up his belligerence factor on a Burke team.


Was watching all the players comments of the NON-kaberle trade... and I'm pretty sure despite my dream of a Luke & Dion Pairing, the top 4 will be:
Phaneuf-Komi
Kaberle- Schenn

I think I like these 4 matched almost any which way.... really makes our top 4 compare with anyone in the league by keeping Tomass.

That's a very inaccurate statement Nick, it would be like me praising Jeff Schultz because the Caps winning percentage was greater with him and OV in the lineup...Sure Schultz is a great player, but the higher winning percentage has ALOT more to do with OV, ditto with Kessel. That being said, I agree that Komi was a good signing, once he learns to settle down and stay healthy he should bring a stabilizing prescence to our blueline, one we have lacked for some time. However, his signing is going to stagnate the development of Luke Schenn, as there is only so much ice time to go around. The signing I personally don't like is Francois Beauchemin, he was overpaid and unneccasarry at the time, and remains so to this day, likewise with Brett Lebda. I don't mind Colby, he is without doubt overpaid, but he brings an element that we don't have, and his salary does not handcuff the Leafs in any way.

As for defense pairings, I believe Kaberle should be on the first pairing, he is much more than an offensive specialist and we need to start utilizing him as a two way defenceman, like he was pre Paul Marice/Ron Wilson. Not as a 2/3rd pairing offensive specialist.

Phaneuf - Kaberle
Komisarek - Gunnarsson
Beauchemin - Schenn
Lebda

[armandtanzarian]

Easy there, almost all of us are pumping up the air in your tires as well.

Lock for the div IMO, potentially the east, depends how you shuffle some salary because you have moves coming with both Chara and Bergeon hitting UFA next season.

Leafs Defense looks awesome tbh...I wonder if that with the goalies they will be a defensive team? Or will they be run and gun like last season...

I think Bergeron will be locked up for career. He is amazing guy, does soooo much for the community. Fan fav for sure. They are trying to lock him up now for the long term...

[Scott]

Bergeron's gonna be eating out of a straw soon enough.. give it 25 games

[Nick]

I think you'd find that Luke & Kaberle both have their best #'s when together (both positive on a negative team when together) spent notable time playing together (the most time with any partner), and one is a left D (kaberle) and the other a right D (schenn).


Komi is right D
Dion is left D
Gunner is left D
Lebda is left D
Beau is left D
Finger is right D

However I think Beau plays on his wrong side.

What this really shows IMO, is that Komi & Luke safely have the top pairings-right side shut down.

[MSP4LYFE]

Leafs Defense looks awesome tbh...I wonder if that with the goalies they will be a defensive team? Or will they be run and gun like last season...

I think Bergeron will be locked up for career. He is amazing guy, does soooo much for the community. Fan fav for sure. They are trying to lock him up now for the long term...

The Leafs weren't run and gun last season, they played an up tempo in your face style of hockey, or at least tried to. With the look of our roster we should play a more defensive oriented style, but as has been demonstrated in the past, Ron Wilson likes to push the pace, and generate offense off the forecheck and counter attack. I expect to see the same this season, but hopefully with less GA.

[MSP4LYFE]

I think you'd find that Luke & Kaberle both have their best #'s when together (both positive on a negative team when together) spent notable time playing together (the most time with any partner), and one is a left D (kaberle) and the other a right D (schenn).


Komi is right D
Dion is left D
Gunner is left D
Lebda is left D
Beau is left D
Finger is right D

However I think Beau plays on his wrong side.

What this really shows IMO, is that Komi & Luke safely have the top pairings-right side shut down.

Luke plays best with Kaberle, not vice versa. Kaberle is at his best when he is played in defensive situations and on the top pp unit. He is an elite blueliner, and needs to be playing top minutes, not like last season where he was often 5th in ice time among defenceman. When Kaberle is played strictly in an offensive role he takes alot more chances that result in errors as opposed to playing a calm defensive game and pushing the puck up ice when the opening arises.

Since we have commited to keeping Kaberle (hopefully long term) we need to put him in situations where he can suceed, second pairing with Luke Schenn isn't the right situation IMO.

And FTR RW played Luke Schenn ALOT on the LS (for w.e reason) so he's not a lock for the top 4, personally I think Gunnarsson has that spot locked up.

[Nick]

you think gunner has top 4 locked up? or you think gunner is top 4 ? LOL perhaps he's penciled in.


Luke was moved around a lot I know, and he hits harder on the left side, but his breakout pass and decision making is clearly that of a right dman (unless RW is trying to break that mindset).



IMO Gunner is next on the trade block... not drafted by Burke, has notable value, I can see him being involved in the next deal.

We need Grabo to return to rookie form, Burke says he needs to progress to a 60point player.

[MSP4LYFE]

you think gunner has top 4 locked up? or you think gunner is top 4 ? LOL perhaps he's penciled in.


Luke was moved around a lot I know, and he hits harder on the left side, but his breakout pass and decision making is clearly that of a right dman (unless RW is trying to break that mindset).



IMO Gunner is next on the trade block... not drafted by Burke, has notable value, I can see him being involved in the next deal.

We need Grabo to return to rookie form, Burke says he needs to progress to a 60point player.

Gunnarsson lead all defenceman in ice time pre Phaneuf, and was second in ice time afterwards, all at the ripe age of 23 and as a rookie, which means he is only going to get better. With that in mind I think it's safe to say he has the top 4 locked up...And he is not on the Leafs trading block, he is a RW favourite, and far from reaching his potential. To deal him now is non sensical, I doubt he has as much trade value as Luke Schenn.

[bills09]

IMO Kaberle will be paired with Komisarek

my hopes for even strength,

Kaberle Komisarek
Phaneuf Schenn
Gunnarsson Beauchemin

PP
Kaberle Phaneuf