Buds Board Keepers League

Raptactics wroteCOLON

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONNick, Carlon's best game of the season was a few days ago...Near 25 minutes, with a ton of ES and STHOI played. He has been exceptionally reliable since, averaging around 20+ minutes a night on a team that is top 3 in hockey.

As for predictions, I think Hamonic is going to make a dent when all is said and done.

I agree with your Carlson assessment thus far. The kid's logging huge minutes and doesn't look out of place at all. Sometimes they even play Carlson over Green on the PP (injuries, not offensively where he should be). Carlson's play has been getting better lately if you ask me.. and I watch a TON of Caps games.

Couldn't agree more, you and Bry see things exactly the way I do it seems.

shattenkirks lookin like the front runner but yeah anyones game.

SuperMario wroteCOLONshattenkirks lookin like the front runner but yeah anyones game.

After what 12 games? How he can be the front runner, lol. For all we know it's just a really, really hot streak.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON

SuperMario wroteCOLONshattenkirks lookin like the front runner but yeah anyones game.

After what 12 games? How he can be the front runner, lol. For all we know it's just a really, really hot streak.

I don't think anyone can dispute that AS OF NOW Shattenkirk is indeed the front runner. Which is what I said. I also capped it off by saying its still anyones game because of the fact that yes it could be a hot streak. But shattenkirk is the undisputed leader right now. Especially after that unprecedented month in points by a rookie d man

SuperMario wroteCOLON

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON

SuperMario wroteCOLONshattenkirks lookin like the front runner but yeah anyones game.

After what 12 games? How he can be the front runner, lol. For all we know it's just a really, really hot streak.

I don't think anyone can dispute that AS OF NOW Shattenkirk is indeed the front runner. Which is what I said. I also capped it off by saying its still anyones game because of the fact that yes it could be a hot streak. But shattenkirk is the undisputed leader right now. Especially after that unprecedented month in points by a rookie d man

LOL, no he's not...It's only been 12 games, I don't care how many points he has, the others have been doing it for longer, and in the case of Fowler Couture and Carlson they have done it at both ends of the rink. To say that Shattenkirk is the undisputed front runner as of now is stupid.

I disagree (and agree with parts) with lots of opinions in the thread, I don't believe there is a single front runner at all at this stage, not Shattenkirk, not Skinner.


The #'s Kevin is putting up are not unprecedented... they are however super impressive, and never seen in the Avs jersey before; this is also true for Fowler in Anaheim, and Skinner in Carolina (I'd wager the caps have had some unreal rookies....). However I would hesitate confusing current streak with what normal production would be for Kevin, w/o watching you'd think there is have Bobby Orr out there, he is not setting the pace of the games at all, and definitely has some puck luck going on. He was not doing anything like that in the AHL, and is currently way above his NCAA pace, and once again, subjectively he hasn't looked as good as those #s ( Please do not change my words to "he has not looked good", he 100% has been very good).


In game I believe Hall, Burmi & Fowler look to be super-stars set to explode, however guys like Skinner, Eberle, Stephan, Shatty and Ennis sure seem to be producing w/o looking dangerous all the time.

Couture and Carlsson are a little different as they appear to be fully developed prospects (not saying peaked), but w/o as much flash as some other 'stud' rookies; they are becoming exactly what was projected (top 6 forward and a top 4 dman), and on very good clubs no less! Which is a double edged situation, they aren't matched up against and have far superior players to work with, but at the same time they are earning ice time.


However we're roughly 1/4 the way through the season, I'm sure 2+ weeks ago everyone was saying Skinner & Eberle.... such a what have you done for me lately situation. With rookies it can all change in the final 20 games when one of them really steps up, but regardless of games left, I don't believe there is a true standout at this stage.


Hell Kadri could still turn shit on and win it not that he's looked on the level as some of the above....

I completely disagree with your analysis on Carlson, what's new? He is only 20 years old, how anyone can call him "fully developed" is beyond me. You do realize Ennis, Shattenkirk, Stepan, Couture and Eberle are the same age or older right? Carlson is a top 2 defencemen on the second best team in hockey at 20 years of age, and unlike Fowler and Shattenkirk he has had to earn it, as opposed to being given the role due to lack of talent. That is a huge plus, and in no way, shape or form is he even close to being "fully developed", there is a shitload of room for him to grow in every aspect of the game. The mere fact that he looks so poised and developed speaks to his talent level. When all is said and done you are looking at a true #1 defencemen, not a top 4 defencemen.

facey wroteCOLONThe #'s Kevin is putting up are not unprecedented... they are however super impressive, and never seen in the Avs jersey before; this is also true for Fowler in Anaheim, and Skinner in Carolina (I'd wager the caps have had some unreal rookies....). However I would hesitate confusing current streak with what normal production would be for Kevin, w/o watching you'd think there is have Bobby Orr out there, he is not setting the pace of the games at all, and definitely has some puck luck going on. He was not doing anything like that in the AHL, and is currently way above his NCAA pace, and once again, subjectively he hasn't looked as good as those #s ( Please do not change my words to "he has not looked good", he 100% has been very good).

I realize you said this but..

I agreed with alot of what you just said but could not agree with this entire paragraph less. He has been defensivly sound, has pushed the play with his exceptional passing and incredible vision. To say he has not taking over the play during his shifts would be far from true. In fact he has been so good so far that Joe Sacco has called him their best and most reliable defender on multiple occasions. He obviously will not keep this point pace up, however he tied an nhl rookie record for points by a defensmen in a month, one Bobby Orr himself never touched. Obviously he is not Bobby Orr but you are under rating his play by more then 10 fold. He has looked as good as those numbers.

BTW Shattenkirks AHL numbers directly reflect the stats being put up by the entire Lake Erie forward group. To say that group has trouble scoring is a understatement.

What flash?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UqjB4xx ... re=related[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_2zXWp ... re=related[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKRXd1d ... re=related[/youtube]

bryshook wroteCOLONI realize you said this but..

I agreed with alot of what you just said but could not agree with this entire paragraph less. He has been defensivly sound, has pushed the play with his exceptional passing and incredible vision. To say he has not taking over the play during his shifts would be far from true. In fact he has been so good so far that Joe Sacco has called him their best and most reliable defender on multiple occasions. He obviously will not keep this point pace up, however he tied an nhl rookie record for points by a defensmen in a month, one Bobby Orr himself never touched. Obviously he is not Bobby Orr but you are under rating his play by more then 10 fold. He has looked as good as those numbers.

BTW Shattenkirks AHL numbers directly reflect the stats being put up by the entire Lake Erie forward group. To say that group has trouble scoring is a understatement.

Agreed.

One thing I've noticed about Carlson as well is that his shot fools goalies. It is a skill you can't teach you either have it or you don't and I think that will make him even more deadly in the years to come.

bryshook wroteCOLONOne thing I've noticed about Carlson as well is that his shot fools goalies. It is a skill you can't teach you either have it or you don't and I think that will make him even more deadly in the years to come.

Yeah it's weird, even routine wristers seem to catch them off guard. I wish he'd use it more.

Kareem I'm not responding to you as you didn't even read what I said. Age was not mentioned in my argument anywhere yet you act like it was some cornerstone. That was a compliment to both Logan and John and you've made it some negative comment.

Bryan I'd like you to put money where your mouth is and make a bet that Shatty holds even 85% of this pace. The player I've been watching won't be capable of doing that.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON Yeah it's weird, even routine wristers seem to catch them off guard. I wish he'd use it more.

Shooting % does not support this comment (5%, #2 in shots by rookie dmen).


Though @ 15% for shatty it would support his.

facey wroteCOLONKareem I'm not responding to you as you didn't even read what I said. Age was not mentioned in my argument anywhere yet you act like it was some cornerstone. That was a compliment to both Logon and John and you've made it some negative comment.

Bryan I'd like you to put money where your mouth is and make a bet that Shatty holds even 85% of this pace. The player I've been watching won't be capable of doing that.

I already said he wont keep this pace.....its a super human pace however he has earned every point with his elite level play. I am just saying that if you are seeing what you have just said, you haven't watched enough of him. Joe Sacco knows more about hockey than both of us combined, if he chose to dress him over a vet like Quincey on multiple occasions on a team that lacks defensive reliability then his defensive side of the game must be pretty elite as well.

thats all I said. I never said he would keep this point pace up, I actually said to the contrary.

Quincy has sucked this year, you've said it more then anyone, clearly not a strong argument there. Eventually led to me complaining about him and Kareem making an offer to buy him NOT at the decreased value

Shatty earned every-point but won't keep it up? So he's hot and going to cool down is the POV your taking?, is that not lee-way in the 15% decreased pace? What pace would you say he's capable of maintaining... the dman i'm watching is hot, currently getting the bounces and should be 40-50points... not 20-25G, 70-80pts as his current pace suggests.


Almost every coach pumps their young kid... Caryle who smashes Sacco for hockey knowledge (and is also a norris winner himself) has called Fowler the best rookie dman he's ever seen on multiple occasions. Teemu who I'd put above Sacco has said that Cam is going to be a Norris contender in the very near future... Niedermery said something to the likes of never seeing so much of himself in another player.

Julien says Seguin is on the verge of making plays almost every shift and makes very few typical rookie mistakes, Renny says Hall has been the best player on the ice for X (6 or 7 as of last weekend) number of games this year... citing own coach/teammates doesn't carry a ton of weight, very biased perspective.

wait... there is a standout.


Bobsky.

facey wroteCOLONKareem I'm not responding to you as you didn't even read what I said. Age was not mentioned in my argument anywhere yet you act like it was some cornerstone. That was a compliment to both Logan and John and you've made it some negative comment.

Bryan I'd like you to put money where your mouth is and make a bet that Shatty holds even 85% of this pace. The player I've been watching won't be capable of doing that.

You labelled him a fully developed player at 20, which suggests there is less room for him to grow as compared to others. You elaborated further by stating he is not as flashy as others. How else should I read into that?

facey wroteCOLON

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON Yeah it's weird, even routine wristers seem to catch them off guard. I wish he'd use it more.

Shooting % does not support this comment (5%, #2 in shots by rookie dmen).


Though @ 15% for shatty it would support his.

LOL, you do realize how idiotic it is to use shooting percentage this early into a players career, and this early into a season to demonstrate how good a shooter someone is, right? Furthermore shots include slap shots, I believe I wrote above that I "wish he would use it (wrist shot) more."

Carlson has a great wrist shot, to even suggest otherwise makes me question your viewings of him.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON
You labelled him a fully developed player at 20, which suggests there is less room for him to grow as compared to others. You elaborated further by stating he is not as flashy as others. How else should I read into that?

I said fully developed in quotes... and said not peaked... and quickly explained that as they are already in their projected roles. I seriously think your a selective reader sometimes... There was no or at least less required jump in their development. Whereas Fowler, Skinner and Burmi are changing game-to-game at this stage...

And I don't think John is as flashy as Cam or PK... ditto with Couture compared to Hall or Eberle.