Buds Board Keepers League

Kezia wroteCOLON Not to mention that he is one of 4 players with a + rating ( one of which played one game), while the rest of the team ranges from -1 to -5. +- is a horrible stat in general to go by, but when you are a + player on a team 17 - players 3 games into a season, kinda shows how clueless the coaching staff is to demote this guy over guys who can't keep the put out of their own net or put it in the other teams.

No offense, but anyone who uses +/- as an argument for why a player is being under utilized (only three games into the season) is clueless...Especially when said player is being given sheltered minutes. It is entirely possible that Filatov made mistakes that should have lead to a goal, but was saved by the goalie, over a full season those discrepancies tend to bear out in the numbers, not so much in three games.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON Not to mention that he is one of 4 players with a + rating ( one of which played one game), while the rest of the team ranges from -1 to -5. +- is a horrible stat in general to go by, but when you are a + player on a team 17 - players 3 games into a season, kinda shows how clueless the coaching staff is to demote this guy over guys who can't keep the put out of their own net or put it in the other teams.

No offense, but anyone who uses +/- as an argument for why a player is being under utilized (only three games into the season) is clueless...Especially when said player is being given sheltered minutes. It is entirely possible that Filatov made mistakes that should have lead to a goal, but was saved by the goalie, over a full season those discrepancies tend to bear out in the numbers, not so much in three games.

He played 2 games and I've admitted that it's a terrible stat to go by, but it does give a good outlook of the teams overall play with him on the ice and with him on the ice. They were more successful with him on the ice than without him. Goalies bail out every single player, so that argument is irrelevant. He wasn't given sheltered minutes in his first game, he was on the ice with Spezza and Michalek. He was demoted the game after and has only played 2 games.

The Sens forums do shed a little more light, he was one of the few players on a two way contract that could be demoted. Like I said, I understand the why, but that still doesn't mean it makes sense. Hopefully he'll find his game a little better in the AHL and be recalled once/if Ziby gets sent down.

Why would Ziby be sent down? For being one of the hardest working players on the ice?

It's asinine to think they put him (NF) in a situation to fail, frigging kid started next to Spezza. He didn't even have to earn that. Do you really think NHL GMs and Coaches want to hold players back or not put together the most competitive lineup?

They want to win, and they ice the team that is most likely to do that. I was a critic of RW for dressing Komi, but he showed me why he's the longest active NHL coach and I'm some scrub watching from home (Komi was awesome).

Filatov is skilled, however until he realizes that Datsyuk isn't just one of the most skilled players, he's also one of the hardest workers, Nikita will never be a regular top 6 in the NHL.

Slightly OT: Cam Fowler & Randy Carlye named Luke Schenn as a player that they had Cam watching in regards to improving his own zone play and PK style...used words like 'relied upon', 'dman you can build around' etc... I still feel like many leaf fans don't realize how lucky we were to get Luke Schenn. I still remember the HF boards RAGE when Luke was selected - never did i imagine we'd get him.

Kezia wroteCOLON

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON Not to mention that he is one of 4 players with a + rating ( one of which played one game), while the rest of the team ranges from -1 to -5. +- is a horrible stat in general to go by, but when you are a + player on a team 17 - players 3 games into a season, kinda shows how clueless the coaching staff is to demote this guy over guys who can't keep the put out of their own net or put it in the other teams.

No offense, but anyone who uses +/- as an argument for why a player is being under utilized (only three games into the season) is clueless...Especially when said player is being given sheltered minutes. It is entirely possible that Filatov made mistakes that should have lead to a goal, but was saved by the goalie, over a full season those discrepancies tend to bear out in the numbers, not so much in three games.

He played 2 games and I've admitted that it's a terrible stat to go by, but it does give a good outlook of the teams overall play with him on the ice and with him on the ice. They were more successful with him on the ice than without him. Goalies bail out every single player, so that argument is irrelevant. He wasn't given sheltered minutes in his first game, he was on the ice with Spezza and Michalek. He was demoted the game after and has only played 2 games.

The Sens forums do shed a little more light, he was one of the few players on a two way contract that could be demoted. Like I said, I understand the why, but that still doesn't mean it makes sense. Hopefully he'll find his game a little better in the AHL and be recalled once/if Ziby gets sent down.

Using that line of logic, the Leafs are more successful with Colton Orr on the ice, than off of it. Using +/- two games into a season doesn't offer meaningful insight over anything other than two games, and two games are a statistically meaningless sample size. You appear to understand that concept, but in the same line of thought argue the stat offers a, "good outlook of the teams overall play with him (Filatov) on the ice." Which is both false, and a contradiction of your earlier claim that +/- is a "terrible stat to go by."

As for the goalie comment, you are wrong. Unless a goaltender bails out every single player an equal amount of times (which we know not to be true) it is relevant, though I should expand the argument to include defenceman and forwards, as it isn't always the goalie who bails out a team mate.

I 100% agree with Nick and his entire statement..

Loved it when we got the Schenner. Wouldn't mind reading the article (or watching the video) where Fowler and Carlyle named Schenn as the player they follow for defensive zone play.

ah, good ol +/-.. I still laugh when guys use that to try and trade for one of my players.

Nick wroteCOLONWhy would Ziby be sent down? For being one of the hardest working players on the ice?

It's asinine to think they put him (NF) in a situation to fail, frigging kid started next to Spezza. He didn't even have to earn that. Do you really think NHL GMs and Coaches want to hold players back or not put together the most competitive lineup?

They want to win, and they ice the team that is most likely to do that. I was a critic of RW for dressing Komi, but he showed me why he's the longest active NHL coach and I'm some scrub watching from home (Komi was awesome).

Filatov is skilled, however until he realizes that Datsyuk isn't just one of the most skilled players, he's also one of the hardest workers, Nikita will never be a regular top 6 in the NHL.

Slightly OT: Cam Fowler & Randy Carlye named Luke Schenn as a player that they had Cam watching in regards to improving his own zone play and PK style...used words like 'relied upon', 'dman you can build around' etc... I still feel like many leaf fans don't realize how lucky we were to get Luke Schenn. I still remember the HF boards RAGE when Luke was selected - never did i imagine we'd get him.

Started and produced next to Spezza, and demoted the next game. As far as Zibby being sent down, I said when/if.

Cuntacular Chris wroteCOLONLoved it when we got the Schenner. Wouldn't mind reading the article (or watching the video) where Fowler and Carlyle named Schenn as the player they follow for defensive zone play.

it was on twitter - i went to ducks site and watched more of the videos but they were different (at least the Carly one was different) although they mention luke and DD in terms of development and young stud dmen to model after - dunno which source was for twitter video - and i'm subscribed to too many people to find it...(did a quick word search and got nothing).

Kezia wroteCOLON Started and produced next to Spezza, and demoted the next game. As far as Zibby being sent down, I said when/if.

If he truly produced, and way helping them win, he would have stayed. No questions asked.


Same reason why Ziby has stayed up, same reason why Luke Schenn was an 82GP dman at 18, same reason why MDZ failed to make the NYR roster last year. You help the team you stay, you don't and things change.


Also IMO none of these other guys were given the same initial opportunity as Nik; Luke in contrast was planned (iirc) on being sent down, but made it impossible.

You are playing it off as if Filatov dominated his first game, and was demoted the next game, he had a secondary assist and was generally mediocre for the majority of the game.

Nick wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON Started and produced next to Spezza, and demoted the next game. As far as Zibby being sent down, I said when/if.

If he truly produced, and way helping them win, he would have stayed. No questions asked.


Same reason why Ziby has stayed up, same reason why Luke Schenn was an 82GP dman at 18, same reason why MDZ failed to make the NYR roster last year. You help the team you stay, you don't and things change.


Also IMO none of these other guys were given the same initial opportunity as Nik; Luke in contrast was planned (iirc) on being sent down, but made it impossible.

A healthy Sidney Crosby couldn't help that team win. Ziby has done as much as Filatov but remains with the team for his 9 game try-out. I mentioned earlier that the reason why Filatov was sent down was probably because of his contract status being a 2 way deal, while others were on one way deals.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONYou are playing it off as if Filatov dominated his first game, and was demoted the next game, he had a secondary assist and was generally mediocre for the majority of the game.

I never said he dominated, he contributed offensively, which is why he was there in the first place.

Kezia wroteCOLON

Nick wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON Started and produced next to Spezza, and demoted the next game. As far as Zibby being sent down, I said when/if.

If he truly produced, and way helping them win, he would have stayed. No questions asked.


Same reason why Ziby has stayed up, same reason why Luke Schenn was an 82GP dman at 18, same reason why MDZ failed to make the NYR roster last year. You help the team you stay, you don't and things change.


Also IMO none of these other guys were given the same initial opportunity as Nik; Luke in contrast was planned (iirc) on being sent down, but made it impossible.

A healthy Sidney Crosby couldn't help that team win. Ziby has done as much as Filatov but remains with the team for his 9 game try-out. I mentioned earlier that the reason why Filatov was sent down was probably because of his contract status being a 2 way deal, while others were on one way deals.

Maybe that combined with the fact that he's a plug

The Devil wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON

Nick wroteCOLON

Kezia wroteCOLON Started and produced next to Spezza, and demoted the next game. As far as Zibby being sent down, I said when/if.

If he truly produced, and way helping them win, he would have stayed. No questions asked.


Same reason why Ziby has stayed up, same reason why Luke Schenn was an 82GP dman at 18, same reason why MDZ failed to make the NYR roster last year. You help the team you stay, you don't and things change.


Also IMO none of these other guys were given the same initial opportunity as Nik; Luke in contrast was planned (iirc) on being sent down, but made it impossible.

A healthy Sidney Crosby couldn't help that team win. Ziby has done as much as Filatov but remains with the team for his 9 game try-out. I mentioned earlier that the reason why Filatov was sent down was probably because of his contract status being a 2 way deal, while others were on one way deals.

Maybe that combined with the fact that he's a plug

Crosby isn't that bad, Scott. Sure he has a concussion but that doesn't lower his value too much.

A healthy Crosby would get any team into the playoffs.

THAT'S A FACT!

The Devil wroteCOLONah, good ol +/-.. I still laugh when guys use that to try and trade for one of my players.

Uh, why not? that's a scoring stat for us.

Mike wroteCOLON

The Devil wroteCOLONah, good ol +/-.. I still laugh when guys use that to try and trade for one of my players.

Uh, why not? that's a scoring stat for us.

Absolutely. And a stupid one at that. It's just not an reliable stat to determine how good a player is but more how bad the team is that he plays for. +/- is literally the last thing I care about when valuing a player I have or want, personally.

Nick wroteCOLONTim Connolly
Carlo Colaiacovo
Martin Havlat
Andrei Markov
Kyle Cumiskey
Marc Savard
Kristian Huselius
Ryan Whitney*just beginning to become that guy*
Pierre-Marc Bouchard

History repeats itself? Same old stories? Earned the title? etc... definitely cannot say it's not expected.

Hey! There goes Hemsky.

SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports
Hemsky gone from game with shoulder injury. Chronic shoulder problems? Starting to sound like it.

Yea, Hemsky deserves to be on that list for sure...