WSH - DET

[Da_Hawks]

This is what happens when good teams have no cap and the majority of rebuilders are content being bad and flirting with missing GP. I don’t even know if it’s good for parity if teams don’t try and add players. Most prospects won’t pan out and teams will never improve.

My team, then Will’s then Matthew’s have all gone from the bottom of the standings to the top by trading futures for players. It can be done and I feel it’s easier than ever right now with how overvalued picks have become.

This is the reason so many teams that are now rebuilding have such a huge mountain to climb. Either bc that did not work out for them in the past, or their predecessor abandoned ship once they saw the writing on the wall (thanks Shiv! - corrected as per Bruyns). In my case, it would be very imprudent to trade away picks for players in the hopes of building this way, bc what few picks we have need to be used for the future. Nobody is trading young guys for these draft picks, only older players that don`t fit the rebuild timeframe. At best, they are gp pieces and then flipped for an equivalent return that we paid, if lucky, later on.

There are occassions where a buy-low and flip works out well for the team (Brodin, Faulk for me as an example), but that requires a GM to be very active (as Shoalzie has been this off-season).

It`s hard to rebuild in this league now. Takes time and patience and cannot be rushed any longer.

[Bruyns]

Shiv not Shep

I only agree to a certain extent. Some teams just don't have enough assets and need to continue to accumulate and rushing is definitely the wrong path. I think it is also wrong to never want to trade picks or prospects and be content with missing lots of GP. Assets all have a certain value and so many prospects bust or become players who don't contribute much that relying solely on rebuilding is not a viable path to contention. I don't think teams should be rushing out to add 35+ players, but when I see multiple players in the 27-32 age range that should have plenty of years left being shopped and teams not wanting to give up anything it's hard to understand. Teams can have a few steady GP options that are surrounded by their young players and it gives them flexibility to move other players down the road for more assets. The point of picks is to produce NHL players and now the value has gone so far to one side that players are becoming undervalued hence why I said it feels easier then ever to add good players.

I have had no real offers on MacKinnon after putting him on the block, I think maybe Matthew made one but no legit offers. This is a top young player that should be worth premium assets, but instead every rebuilder thinks they have to hold on to every player since they might be the next MacKinnon, it is not realistic.

In ADHL that some of us are in the following trade just went down.

Panarin

for

Pavel Buchnevich
Chase Stillman
11th pick
32nd pick
2023 2nd (NYR)

The acquiring team was 21st overall and not that strong, probably a bad trade so I am not advocating for a deal like this and I realize the quality of GMs here is better than ADHL. I'm just pointing out that elite players still have value in other leagues, but here we have decided that unless you are on your ELC and under 26 then a player is not worth trading for. I will never get an offer like that for MacKinnon and MacKinnon > Panarin.

I still think this is the strongest online fantasy league and we have excellent GMs. I just wish we had a few more GMs who would decide they want to go for it and make trades like the above. There are teams out there willing to move players for cheap and no one wants to take advantage and pick up assets now and move them at a later date for a profit. Having cap space, picks and prospects would be a very fun position to be in, but rather than wheel and deal and improve everyone wants to try and build a super team of prospects who all turn into all stars.

[Arian The Insider]

I've had young NHLers available for 3rd rounders multiple times. Either one GM reached out after quite a while or none ever did. There are players under 30 available each offseason for a non-first round pick.

I think a lot of rebuilders will be in for a disappointment when very few of their picks hit in the next few years.

[Matthew]

I'd say the #1 difference between rebuilds that work and ones that sputter out is activity. And I don't mean posting. I mean making offers. The GMs who send out lots of offers do well, the GMs who sit around waiting for offers and complain they aren't getting offers on specific player do less well. Or their rebuilds take longer anyway. It took me 6 years before I was a playoff team though haha. Build up your latent potential and then watch it pop.

Know what you want and go and get it.

Also set a plan on how you will rebuild.

I started with a team whose best asset was a just bought out Mike ribeiro, and I don't believe I ever made a top 5 draft pick.

[Da_Hawks]

I'd say the #1 difference between rebuilds that work and ones that sputter out is activity. And I don't mean posting. I mean making offers. The GMs who send out lots of offers do well, the GMs who sit around waiting for offers and complain they aren't getting offers on specific player do less well. Or their rebuilds take longer anyway. It took me 6 years before I was a playoff team though haha. Build up your latent potential and then watch it pop.

Know what you want and go and get it.

Also set a plan on how you will rebuild.

I started with a team whose best asset was a just bought out Mike ribeiro, and I don't believe I ever made a top 5 draft pick.

How is that even possible?

[Bruyns]

Trades and not being afraid to add assets and move them at a later date.

[Shoalzie]

It`s hard to rebuild in this league now. Takes time and patience and cannot be rushed any longer.

It depends on what approach you go with. If you think you're going to draft an entire roster (18 skaters + 1 or 2 goalies), that will take a long time. If you're fortunate enough to find 2/3/4 NHLers in a given draft...it's not like they come into the league at 18. You draft someone with the idea of it could be a year or four years before you can even use them.

Teams need to maintain a functional roster while they wait their prospects to grow and develop. When you have to contend with an NHL organization's prospect timeline...you can't just plug your first rounder in to your team unless that NHL team plays that player. The 3 kids I just took...I don't expect to play any of them until maybe 2024 at the earliest. If they arrive sooner...great.

There's only so few players taken in a draft that can go right to the NHL at 18. You have to be patient to hang onto as many picks as you can and you have to be patient and wait on your draftees to be NHL-ready. So much of this out of our hands as a fantasy GM.

The easiest roster to manage is a contending roster because you know who those players are and you have expectations and you have to work around the most productive years of each player and their contracts. When you're rebuilding, all you're doing is waiting and doing a lot of losing. Drafting and building a team is definitely playing the long game. Some guys don't have the time or the patience for it...and quite frankly, I don't blame them. If you're going to do it...stick to the plan because it's not easy to start the process over again (which is what I'm doing). I should have never left that path because my team would've been in better shape if I was more patient.

Even if you're going to try to trade your way up to be a playoff team...it takes several moves and they have to work out well for you. Bad trades will bury you or put the brakes on any forward momentum you're making.

[Da_Hawks]

And for Bruyns - nobody wants to make an offer on Mackinnon exactly for the reason why the Panarin deal makes no sense. Most of the assets in this league belong to the rebuilders and Kyuss. The market for a soon to be 10 figure salaried elite superstar like Nate is a tough one... everyone knows that depth and good salaries wins championships. You don`t win all your cups without Marchand, Kane and Nate being on sweetheart deals. But Marchand and Nate at 10 mil, Kane at his 7 mil and you lose depth that hurts your team.

Takes a special team to acquire a Mackinnon right now, without knowing his upcoming salary.

[Matthew]

I'd say the #1 difference between rebuilds that work and ones that sputter out is activity. And I don't mean posting. I mean making offers. The GMs who send out lots of offers do well, the GMs who sit around waiting for offers and complain they aren't getting offers on specific player do less well. Or their rebuilds take longer anyway. It took me 6 years before I was a playoff team though haha. Build up your latent potential and then watch it pop.

Know what you want and go and get it.

Also set a plan on how you will rebuild.

I started with a team whose best asset was a just bought out Mike ribeiro, and I don't believe I ever made a top 5 draft pick.

How is that even possible?

Took over the team in September and then didn't have a 1st the following year. So I had 2 seasons before I had a pick, but then traded the pick for Patrick kane. So really didn't have a 1st for years and years when I began. Focused more on asset expansion than drafting.

Even now I only have 4 players I drafted in the entry draft. I'm more focused on trading than drafting.

[Bruyns]

And for Bruyns - nobody wants to make an offer on Mackinnon exactly for the reason why the Panarin deal makes no sense. Most of the assets in this league belong to the rebuilders and Kyuss. The market for a soon to be 10 figure salaried elite superstar like Nate is a tough one... everyone knows that depth and good salaries wins championships. You don`t win all your cups without Marchand, Kane and Nate being on sweetheart deals. But Marchand and Nate at 10 mil, Kane at his 7 mil and you lose depth that hurts your team.

Takes a special team to acquire a Mackinnon right now, without knowing his upcoming salary.

Look at all the top teams, most have players making 10Mish because that is what elite players make. The exact team that would benefit from MacKinnon is the one who can surround him with multiple players on ELCs. Good teams with stars on big money contracts aren't looking to trade them for cheap. You sacrifice around the edges and get the 750K depth dman instead of the 3M one. Yes my team is strong due to MacKinnon and Marchand being on great contracts, but every year I have a lot of player movement. If MacKinnon made 10.3 last year then I can't afford to add 7M Pavelski or maybe I have to sell off Petry. I still think I have an elite team if Mack made 4M more.

[koomzzz]

In ADHL that some of us are in the following trade just went down.

Panarin

for

Pavel Buchnevich
Chase Stillman
11th pick
32nd pick
2023 2nd (NYR)

The acquiring team was 21st overall and not that strong, probably a bad trade so I am not advocating for a deal like this and I realize the quality of GMs here is better than ADHL. I'm just pointing out that elite players still have value in other leagues, but here we have decided that unless you are on your ELC and under 26 then a player is not worth trading for. I will never get an offer like that for MacKinnon and MacKinnon > Panarin.

I still think this is the strongest online fantasy league and we have excellent GMs. I just wish we had a few more GMs who would decide they want to go for it and make trades like the above. There are teams out there willing to move players for cheap and no one wants to take advantage and pick up assets now and move them at a later date for a profit. Having cap space, picks and prospects would be a very fun position to be in, but rather than wheel and deal and improve everyone wants to try and build a super team of prospects who all turn into all stars.

Don't publicly call me a rapist without warning

[Da_Hawks]

And for Bruyns - nobody wants to make an offer on Mackinnon exactly for the reason why the Panarin deal makes no sense. Most of the assets in this league belong to the rebuilders and Kyuss. The market for a soon to be 10 figure salaried elite superstar like Nate is a tough one... everyone knows that depth and good salaries wins championships. You don`t win all your cups without Marchand, Kane and Nate being on sweetheart deals. But Marchand and Nate at 10 mil, Kane at his 7 mil and you lose depth that hurts your team.

Takes a special team to acquire a Mackinnon right now, without knowing his upcoming salary.

Look at all the top teams, most have players making 10Mish because that is what elite players make. The exact team that would benefit from MacKinnon is the one who can surround him with multiple players on ELCs. Good teams with stars on big money contracts aren't looking to trade them for cheap. You sacrifice around the edges and get the 750K depth dman instead of the 3M one. Yes my team is strong due to MacKinnon and Marchand being on great contracts, but every year I have a lot of player movement. If MacKinnon made 10.3 last year then I can't afford to add 7M Pavelski or maybe I have to sell off Petry. I still think I have an elite team if Mack made 4M more.

But do you have an elite team if Mack AND Marchand both made 4M more and Kane was making his full 7? Not likely.

[Bruyns]

I think it's funny that no one even comments on a trade like that. Imagine how many replies would be on that trade here.

[Bruyns]

And for Bruyns - nobody wants to make an offer on Mackinnon exactly for the reason why the Panarin deal makes no sense. Most of the assets in this league belong to the rebuilders and Kyuss. The market for a soon to be 10 figure salaried elite superstar like Nate is a tough one... everyone knows that depth and good salaries wins championships. You don`t win all your cups without Marchand, Kane and Nate being on sweetheart deals. But Marchand and Nate at 10 mil, Kane at his 7 mil and you lose depth that hurts your team.

Takes a special team to acquire a Mackinnon right now, without knowing his upcoming salary.

Look at all the top teams, most have players making 10Mish because that is what elite players make. The exact team that would benefit from MacKinnon is the one who can surround him with multiple players on ELCs. Good teams with stars on big money contracts aren't looking to trade them for cheap. You sacrifice around the edges and get the 750K depth dman instead of the 3M one. Yes my team is strong due to MacKinnon and Marchand being on great contracts, but every year I have a lot of player movement. If MacKinnon made 10.3 last year then I can't afford to add 7M Pavelski or maybe I have to sell off Petry. I still think I have an elite team if Mack made 4M more.

But do you have an elite team if Mack AND Marchand both made 4M more and Kane was making his full 7? Not likely.

I would probably have to trade them and get back other assets, if you add 12.5M to any top teams salary they obviously won't be as good. The point is a young star player making 10M is still a very good asset to own, if a team has too many star players they should be able to trade one that's not a bad situation to be in.

[Da_Hawks]

Bruyns - point I am making is that you are in a unique situation where you own probably two of the best contracts in the league - identified as much - and have moved heaven and earth to surround them with a great roster. You did exactly what you should have done and you did it extremely well. You have now won how many times in a row? It just reinforces the notion that you cannot win with giant salaries on your team, at least not many. And if you do have them, you need a bunch of ELCs as you stated to round out the roster (which is hard to do).

There are teams on the cusp of making a run - Preds, Dallas - loaded systems that have not figured out how to win. They are the ones that need to stop hoarding futures and make a run for it, not necessarily the up and coming teams taking the patient approach (or maybe they should to further embarrass those loaded franchises doing nothing haha).

[Bruyns]

ANA surpassing NSH is embarrassing, I agree that some contenders could do more and I've been vocal about that as well. MacKinnon has one more year at 6.3 and Mik could easily go all in and buy him off me for an overpayment that he would barely feel in the long run.

Winning 5 years is a lot of luck too, I don't dominate the regular season and I lose to teams regularly including to Florida in the 1st round this year. I traded for MacKinnon, Marchand, Kane, Miller, etc. I had two drafted players on my team Lindgren and Svechnikov. If anything you are making the argument for me that teams need to trade and not just sit on their picks and prospects. Like Matthew said have a plan and go out and execute. Use assets to improve your team gradually and don't expect every prospect you trade is a star.

[Matthew]

I'm pretty sure I've offered you something like seider+mcmichael+ in the past for mackinnon. And did offer mcmichael+kravtsov+ty smith for Miller. But that was when there were 2 or 3 years remaining on their contracts. And you wanted continuing to compete at that point. Can't have your cake and eat it too. You wanted to burn years off the contract and continue to get those offers.

[Da_Hawks]

ANA surpassing NSH is embarrassing, I agree that some contenders could do more and I've been vocal about that as well. MacKinnon has one more year at 6.3 and Mik could easily go all in and buy him off me for an overpayment that he would barely feel in the long run.

Winning 5 years is a lot of luck too, I don't dominate the regular season and I lose to teams regularly including to Florida in the 1st round this year. I traded for MacKinnon, Marchand, Kane, Miller, etc. I had two drafted players on my team Lindgren and Svechnikov. If anything you are making the argument for me that teams need to trade and not just sit on their picks and prospects. Like Matthew said have a plan and go out and execute. Use assets to improve your team gradually and don't expect every prospect you trade is a star.

I mean, if a team has the assets to trade for all those elite players, then they should do it. Something tells me you got them before they broke out though.

[Matthew]

Bruyns - point I am making is that you are in a unique situation where you own probably two of the best contracts in the league - identified as much - and have moved heaven and earth to surround them with a great roster. You did exactly what you should have done and you did it extremely well. You have now won how many times in a row? It just reinforces the notion that you cannot win with giant salaries on your team, at least not many. And if you do have them, you need a bunch of ELCs as you stated to round out the roster (which is hard to do).

There are teams on the cusp of making a run - Preds, Dallas - loaded systems that have not figured out how to win. They are the ones that need to stop hoarding futures and make a run for it, not necessarily the up and coming teams taking the patient approach (or maybe they should to further embarrass those loaded franchises doing nothing haha).

Good rebuilders with a consistent direction succeed. You are dejected after a few years, and I was too a couple years in. It's because you can't see the latent potential that is coming. It jumps up out of no where at a certain point and then it becomes difficult to keep your team from succeeding. I was trying not to compete the first year I made the finals but too many of my pieces began doing well and pushed me into the playoffs unexpectedly despite my best efforts to miss for another year.

[Da_Hawks]

Bruyns - point I am making is that you are in a unique situation where you own probably two of the best contracts in the league - identified as much - and have moved heaven and earth to surround them with a great roster. You did exactly what you should have done and you did it extremely well. You have now won how many times in a row? It just reinforces the notion that you cannot win with giant salaries on your team, at least not many. And if you do have them, you need a bunch of ELCs as you stated to round out the roster (which is hard to do).

There are teams on the cusp of making a run - Preds, Dallas - loaded systems that have not figured out how to win. They are the ones that need to stop hoarding futures and make a run for it, not necessarily the up and coming teams taking the patient approach (or maybe they should to further embarrass those loaded franchises doing nothing haha).

Good rebuilders with a consistent direction succeed. You are dejected after a few years, and I was too a couple years in. It's because you can't see the latent potential that is coming. It jumps up out of no where at a certain point and then it becomes difficult to keep your team from succeeding. I was trying not to compete the first year I made the finals but too many of my pieces began doing well and pushed me into the playoffs unexpectedly despite my best efforts to miss for another year.

I was pissed when Byram went down and the rumours were that he was done. But my reasons for leaving have nothing to do with that. I am pretty excited for the new GM and all the talent coming up through the pipeline in Hawks-land. In a few years, the attitude should switch to buying vs selling, which it sounds like booboo is way more comfortable doing so that's encouraging.