First overall

[MSP4LYFE]

Well I'll counter with:

You sound like a guy going out with an ugly girl and are rationalizing it to yourself by saying that she has a "good personality."

Ouch...

[Lee]

[Lee]

D

[bma]

I just don't see why there needed to be a thread created about this.

[shooker]

You see, Shiv. If you put these players stats side by side, without the names , and asked people to vote who the better player is, the person with better stats, more consistent , consistent 82 GP stats, will win every damned time. Hossa is the sexy name out of the 2, so in some peoples opinion, he could never be bstatselow Jokinen. All that and Jokinen is being paid over 2 mil less.

Regarding the other comment.. Atleast in my scenario, I'm still getting some Apparently she knows how to make me tick as well. I guess we'll see next year how many make the NHL.

Really? this coming from mister "I guess he is just another hockey db follower". wow consistancy bud.

[Lee]

You see Bry, when I call someone a Hockey DB follower, it generally means that they look at assists, goals, PIM and nothing else. This isn't just a G A PIM league. Exactly what people were doing with McBain. They saw 5 points and nothing else. The opinion is that because Hossa will pot 10-20 more points that Jokinen, he obviously must be better, when that's simply not the case. Jokinen adds faceoofs, more PPTOI, more hits, more blocks, more in almost all statistical categories.

[MSP4LYFE]

You see Bry, when I call someone a Hockey DB follower, it generally means that they look at assists, goals, PIM and nothing else. This isn't just a G A PIM league. Exactly what people were doing with McBain. They saw 5 points and nothing else. The opinion is that because Hossa will pot 10-20 more points that Jokinen, he obviously must be better, when that's simply not the case. Jokinen adds faceoofs, more PPTOI, more hits, more blocks, more in almost all statistical categories.

Jokinen is on the second pp unit, and Hossa on the first, so right off the bat you are incorrect. Secondly, Hossa produces more SHTOI and consistently better +/-, on top of more goals, assists, stpts, points, and sog, and while Jokinen may put up better hits, and blocks they are still poor totals, and thus negligible. He isn't the best face off taking centerman either, so I wouldn't brag about that, but most important of all is that Jokinen was almost out of the league this season, and atm only has a one year contract, he isn't someone I'd bring in to help for tomorrow.

[Robin Hood]

You see, Shiv. If you put these players stats side by side, without the names , and asked people to vote who the better player is, the person with better stats, more consistent , consistent 82 GP stats, will win every damned time. Hossa is the sexy name out of the 2, so in some peoples opinion, he could never be bstatselow Jokinen. All that and Jokinen is being paid over 2 mil less.

Regarding the other comment.. Atleast in my scenario, I'm still getting some Apparently she knows how to make me tick as well. I guess we'll see next year how many make the NHL.

Really? this coming from mister "I guess he is just another hockey db follower". wow consistancy bud.

Sigh how many of you shit talk about my stats-first mentality anyway haha?

[Robin Hood]

btw Lee, Jokinen is not in the same universe as Hossa. You are talking about 1) a shortened season last year. 2) the fact that Hossa is clearly still got it while Jokinen lost it about 3-4years ago. 3) the fact that Hossa has more trade value in this league than Jokinen (this has value too you know. you got Olesz and Jokinen in your deal for that 1st overall. try trading those two and see how much you get versus how much you get if you trade hossa/martin).

Btw another fun fact. The trade for 1st overall was actually Giroux + all the other pieces going Mashleys way. I stepped in and offered Hossa + Martin for Giroux + Huskins.

The thing you are missing Lee is the basic concept that governs the Trade Deadline in the NHL and basic Economics really. The demand for specific assets at specific times is higher. Selling the ONLY umbrella on a sunny day might fetch you $2. Selling the ONLY umbrella in while its pouring outside and about 10 people want an umbrella could easily fetch you $10. That is your fault with this trade.

[Scott]

Comparing Jokinen to Hossa is like comparing Brad Marsh to Mario Lemieux.. wow Lee, can't defend you there.

[Lee]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

[MSP4LYFE]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

Hossa is better than Jokinen in all but 4 statistical categories this season, and 3 of those 4 are by 14 or less points (PIMS, BS, HIT).

[Robin Hood]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

http://bbkl.hockey.cbssports.com/player ... :p/scoring?

the ONLY categories Jokinen is better than Hossa in are PIMS and Hits (which are negligible) and FOW (hes a Center DUH).

Meanwhile Hossa owns him in Goals, SHTOI, Pts, StPts, +/-.

Oh and Hossa has played 2 fewer games.

And AGAIN - Hossa's trade value >>>>>>>>>> Jokinen's trade value. Do you know what that means? If you go to trade Hossa today, you will get a FAR better return than if you trade Jokinen. That has value my friend.

The fact that I have to explain all of this on TOP of the fact that you sold the draft pick in a package that on draft day wouldve been EASILY fetched with the pick alone, makes you sound ridiculous man. you need to stop.

[Lee]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

Hossa is better than Jokinen in all but 4 statistical categories this season, and 3 of those 4 are by 14 or less points (PIMS, BS, HIT).

Thank you for confirming everything that I've been saying. Ollie is a better periphery player and maybe 10-20 points less.

[MSP4LYFE]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

Hossa is better than Jokinen in all but 4 statistical categories this season, and 3 of those 4 are by 14 or less points (PIMS, BS, HIT).

Thank you for confirming everything that I've been saying. Ollie is a better periphery player and maybe 10-20 points less.

No...He isn't...He is marginally better in a few stats, and Hossa abolutely dominates the rest, and you are insane if you think Hossa only outscores Jokinen by 10-20, try 20-30.

[Nick]

Lee it appears that you are going FULL retard.

Hossa is superior H2h, BBKL value and real life.

Your talking about two non-physical players with a "hits" difference of 8 , one or two bs... and acting as if that makes a better h2h player.


40SHTOI = nice pk time for an offensive player like Hossa

18pts vs 10pts ... already.... in less GP
8 goals vs 2 ... see above


Yes Olli is a centre, so he has FOW... not like you can have have 12 centres (well... )

Have you ever conceded a point here in the BBKL or do you honestly believe that we're all wrong?

[Lee]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove how he is statistically better than Jokinen. Whole lot of opinion, I see that. I don't see any factual information.

http://bbkl.hockey.cbssports.com/player ... :p/scoring?

the ONLY categories Jokinen is better than Hossa in are PIMS and Hits (which are negligible) and FOW (hes a Center DUH).

Meanwhile Hossa owns him in Goals, SHTOI, Pts, StPts, +/-.

Oh and Hossa has played 2 fewer games.

And AGAIN - Hossa's trade value >>>>>>>>>> Jokinen's trade value. Do you know what that means? If you go to trade Hossa today, you will get a FAR better return than if you trade Jokinen. That has value my friend.

The fact that I have to explain all of this on TOP of the fact that you sold the draft pick in a package that on draft day wouldve been EASILY fetched with the pick alone, makes you sound ridiculous man. you need to stop.

So he's better than him in 1 periphery category.

[MSP4LYFE]

So he's better than him in 1 periphery category.

Why is it that you refuse to ever admit you are wrong?

[Lee]

So he's better than him in 1 periphery category.

Why is it that you refuse to ever admit you are wrong?

This isn't just a 1 year trend for Jokinen. He's been better this year and better last year. People want to take this a lot further than I was. I was making an observation that their stats aren't that far off. There's a reason why Jokinen or even Antropov aren't on my team any more. I need organizational depth, not 3 NHL forwards and a bunch of scrubs.

[Nick]

but lee dude... how can you sit there making that claim... your either not looking or not thinking.


+4 vs -5 is a real gap ----------- Hossa

10a vs 8 a is nothing ---------- Tie

a bs gap from 10 to 9 ---------- Tie

Oli has FOW, 6 per game is okay, nothing to brag about though -------- Oli , but with a * (Centre vs Win...LOL)

8 goals vs 2 is a real gap -------- Hossa

1 GWG vs 0 ----------- Hossa but not notable yet... over the season is a nice detail though, so w/*

a total of 21 hits vs 13 hits is a negligible difference... neither one is winning you hits. ----------- Tie

14PIMS vs 28 --------- Oli

18pts vs 10 -------- Hossa

40 SHTOI vs 2 ------- Hossa

61 vs 57 sog ------- Tie

7 stpts vs 3 ------ Hossa


Hossa 6, Oli 2, tie/negligible 4


Its not even close Lee... Hossa is good at categories that are worth more as well.