Ruling on Fedro91 (DAL)

[tyler]

i agree scott .. but the rule we are in discussion over is not 100% in the CBA.

removal of 1st is all it says. -> nothing about what 1st taken, who decides, or when its taken.

[Mike]

There have been fines before I think. They occurred immediately I believe.

Although I think this is a harsh fine based on where the pick is. But if rules are rules, rules are rules.

Yep, it is harsh. I wish Frank had not made the trade to acquire this pick. I knew I'd get shit for enforcing the rule.

Regrettably he did.

[Scott]

i agree scott .. but the rule we are in discussion over is not 100% in the CBA.

removal of 1st is all it says. -> nothing about what 1st taken, who decides, or when its taken.

Punishments have ALWAYS been immediate.. the CC voted to keep Frank around for the best interests of BBKL and the Dallas Stars and in doing so, enforced the punishments. It's just the way it is!

[Mike]

i agree scott .. but the rule we are in discussion over is not 100% in the CBA.

removal of 1st is all it says. -> nothing about what 1st taken, who decides, or when its taken.

To quote what I posted in the CC regarding this issue:

Primary reason: he had one pick. Even if he had many his, or the best (based on standings) if he didn't have his, would be taken. Consider this precident.

Now regaedless of this, think of this situation:

Nate is still running CAR. He has the same fine. Instead of accepting his punishment he trades for NJD 1st. Do you accept that? It denegrates the rule, making it pretty much worthless.

Say we let him keep that pick (which is absurd), he is much better off than keeping his own pick even if it were better as his pick would be stripped of lottery eligibility and then some.

[Robin Hood]

i agree scott .. but the rule we are in discussion over is not 100% in the CBA.

removal of 1st is all it says. -> nothing about what 1st taken, who decides, or when its taken.

To quote what I posted in the CC regarding this issue:

Primary reason: he had one pick. Even if he had many his, or the best (based on standings) if he didn't have his, would be taken. Consider this precident.

Now regaedless of this, think of this situation:

Nate is still running CAR. He has the same fine. Instead of accepting his punishment he trades for NJD 1st. Do you accept that? It denegrates the rule, making it pretty much worthless.

Say we let him keep that pick (which is absurd), he is much better off than keeping his own pick even if it were better as his pick would be stripped of lottery eligibility and then some.

1. The CBA says the fine should be a 1st. Not which 1st
2. The CBA does not say WHEN the 1st should be taken. Hence any fine should give the party time to pay it. Just like if a Team was fined a 2nd and did not have a 2nd. Time is given.
3. If Frank did indeed go out and get NJD's 1st there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT IF THE CC DECIDES IT IS OKAY.

You guys did not let the CC decide IF 1) Time should be given or 2) What type of 1st would be befitting IF time was given.

If you actually let us discuss we could have established a guideline i.e. Give Frank 1 week to find a draft pick that ranges between #7 and #15 based on current standings.

The problem is you guys made the decision yourselves and didn't let us get to that point.

[Scott]

Shiv, you keep repeating yourself.. it doesn't make it any more correct.

Punishments are handed out immediately, always have been.

[Robin Hood]

Shiv, you keep repeating yourself.. it doesn't make it any more correct.

Punishments are handed out immediately, always have been.

you have still not addressed anything I or berg or other people have said. hence my arguments need to be repeated because you obviously do not have a rational counter to what we are saying.

[Scott]

Shiv, you keep repeating yourself.. it doesn't make it any more correct.

Punishments are handed out immediately, always have been.

you have still not addressed anything I or berg or other people have said. hence my arguments need to be repeated because you obviously do not have a rational counter to what we are saying.

scroll up a few posts..

[tyler]

if you get a speeding ticket .. does the cop take your bank account information down and take the money out of your bank right away? No, he gives you the ticket .. and you get X amount of time to pay.

[Robin Hood]

Shiv, you keep repeating yourself.. it doesn't make it any more correct.

Punishments are handed out immediately, always have been.

you have still not addressed anything I or berg or other people have said. hence my arguments need to be repeated because you obviously do not have a rational counter to what we are saying.

scroll up a few posts..

do you notice i am not the only one criticizing you guys? people in the CC, people outside of the CC and it is a LARGE majority. Look around you. You guys are a small minority. And members with a calm, rational record are agreeing with me DESPITE me being overzealous and the opposite of calm lol. Think about it scott. There is a reason for it. You guys are not answering our questions with rational counters.

[Mike]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

[Robin Hood]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

Yes but you are thinking I am talking about the fine Frank received. I am talking about the CC not having an opportunity to vote. That is a black and white issue. And almost everyone agrees. You and Scott are pretty much the only ones who think we should not have had a vote on it.

[Mike]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

Yes but you are thinking I am talking about the fine Frank received. I am talking about the CC not having an opportunity to vote. That is a black and white issue. And almost everyone agrees. You and Scott are pretty much the only ones who think we should not have had a vote on it.

Speaking for the masses again there Shiv.

We need to make unpopular decisions from time to time. So be it.

On this issue: it is not something that involves the CC. I've seen your arguments that it should, I disagree.

[Robin Hood]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

Yes but you are thinking I am talking about the fine Frank received. I am talking about the CC not having an opportunity to vote. That is a black and white issue. And almost everyone agrees. You and Scott are pretty much the only ones who think we should not have had a vote on it.

Speaking for the masses again there Shiv.

We need to make unpopular decisions from time to time. So be it.

On this issue: it is not something that involves the CC. I've seen your arguments that it should, I disagree.

Are you suggesting that when You do not see how the CC should be involved in an issue, that is how it will be? Is that the hierarchy you are saying needs to exist?

[Mike]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

Yes but you are thinking I am talking about the fine Frank received. I am talking about the CC not having an opportunity to vote. That is a black and white issue. And almost everyone agrees. You and Scott are pretty much the only ones who think we should not have had a vote on it.

Speaking for the masses again there Shiv.

We need to make unpopular decisions from time to time. So be it.

On this issue: it is not something that involves the CC. I've seen your arguments that it should, I disagree.

Are you suggesting that when You do not see how the CC should be involved in an issue, that is how it will be? Is that the hierarchy you are saying needs to exist?

Certain issues the CC is needed for, certain issues it is not. Had we a team of lawyers to draft a complete CBA we wouldn't be in this position. Unfortunately we are all humans. Lay people. Our CBA will have holes. The CC is not around to interpret punishment, only determine culpability.

[Robin Hood]

Shiv, as I said before - some will agree, some will disagree. With every move we make. I am OK with this. I'm sorry you are not.

Yes but you are thinking I am talking about the fine Frank received. I am talking about the CC not having an opportunity to vote. That is a black and white issue. And almost everyone agrees. You and Scott are pretty much the only ones who think we should not have had a vote on it.

Speaking for the masses again there Shiv.

We need to make unpopular decisions from time to time. So be it.

On this issue: it is not something that involves the CC. I've seen your arguments that it should, I disagree.

Are you suggesting that when You do not see how the CC should be involved in an issue, that is how it will be? Is that the hierarchy you are saying needs to exist?

The CC is not around to interpret punishment, only determine culpability.

You obviously do not know the CC's history. The CC has REPEATEDLY handed down punishments and decided how to handle situations. There are precedents at EVERY step of the way of BBKL. What are you talking about?

[Shep]

If the punishment says a 1st. I don't see why that 1st isn't removed immediately. If it's supposed to be the highest 1st, then Frank loses the PHI 1st.

If Frank got this 1st Rounder 2 months ago, this wouldn't even be up for discussion IMO. The fact he JUST traded for it likely is why we're hearing so much about this.

[Mike]

I admit we have been lax at times, but this you are ignorant to the reality of what the CC was designed to do.

[Robin Hood]

If the punishment says a 1st. I don't see why that 1st isn't removed immediately. If it's supposed to be the highest 1st, then Frank loses the PHI 1st.

If Frank got this 1st Rounder 2 months ago, this wouldn't even be up for discussion IMO. The fact he JUST traded for it likely is why we're hearing so much about this.

It is not supposed to be his highest 1st. There is no rule that says that. Neither is there a rule that says it should be removed immediately. There are several instances where people have been given time to get the draft pick they have been fined.

[Robin Hood]

I admit we have been lax at times, but this you are ignorant to the reality of what the CC was designed to do.

in this discussion, you have blatantly pointed out that this is "your" league and the CC's job is to just vote on things that come up but you always have final say. Thank you for that.