Issues With TSN.CA

[MSP4LYFE]

Exactly which is why we should go by one site and stick to it for the whole year and not mess with the rules 2 weeks before or during the season.

If that is the common consensus, than TSN should be stripped of it's status, and CBS should be the final say in regards to position eligibility. Unless that occurs, the league will have a constant difference of opinon on the matter.

[Shep]

As long as nothing is changing, I have nothing to say.

[MSP4LYFE]

well I wrote Scott Cullen to explain some stuff with regards to TSN's database. Hope he answers me soon. Will post.

What he says is completely and utterly irrelevent Kyle...Unless the CC agrees to terminate position eligiblity midway through the season in accordance with TSN, it doesn't matter how up to date they are during the season...

Let me give you an example:

Dustin Byfuglien is listed as a winger/defenceman right now, if he were to play the whole season as a defenceman TSN would change his eligibity strictly to a defenceman, but would the CC force Scott to use him solely as a defenceman after granting him the right to use him as a winger to start the season? No. Therefore it doesn't matter what Scott Cullen responds with.

[MSP4LYFE]

As long as nothing is changing, I have nothing to say.

So as long as something stays constant you have no opinon of it? Interesting...

[MSP4LYFE]

I would also like to say I agree with the points Mike brought up as well. He has such a liberal view and always states his opinions with the leagues best interest at heart and i do not thing one person in here would disagree with that statement.

I do...

[MSP4LYFE]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, Tsn itself wasn't ever voted on. The vote that you are talking about was this "Use one sole source of objective information to resolve any position disputes like TSN". We went with it blindly.

Wow...If true that is an absolute joke on the part of the CC...

[MSP4LYFE]

So you`re telling me sportsnet is more accurate then tsn is? That's laughable in and of itself. Tsn>>>>>sportsnet!

What's laughable is your continual dismissal of arguments without providing any counter arguments or evidence to the contrary. In essence your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) follow the same format, I think X, therefore Y is out of the question.

If you believe TSN is a better resource than Sportsnet than prove it, or at the very least elaborate on your reasoning for such an opinon. TSN>>>SPNET is not an argument, nor is it a fact, from from it in fact. It's an opinon, which isolated from evidence and/or reasoning is laughable, in and of itself....

[inferno31]

We are a fantasy keeper league, where we maintain teams year to year (week to week if you are shiv).

Your main argument against TSN is that it is inaccurate as it uses what happened last year to determine its positions. Thus many players have dual eligibility on TSN.
Versus Sportsnet that has players listed as what they should be playing this year.

Question.. should be playing based off what? Based off reports? Based on camps?
I don't agree with that. How is assigning positions more accurate (ala Sportsnet) because the coach doesn't know, nor does the player himself know specifically what position he will be starting and playing all season.

Using last season as a measuring stick to go forward each season in terms of positions makes the most sense, I'd rather go with TSN which has some continuity (Like our league) vs Sportsnet which has assigned only one position per player based off what exactly?

That doesn't make sportsnet more accurate it just makes it more selective, I'd rather go with the website that uses last years values and doesn't change them till they know what will be happening this year.

TSN we would have continuity season to season, vs Sportsnet we'd have to reset every dual eligible player every offseason. I'd rather do it based off whats happened in the past vs what with no proof SNET thinks will happen in the future.

To be honest we should just stick with CBS and Ask an admin for changes like Mike suggested as this is already getting crazy.

[Scott]

So you`re telling me sportsnet is more accurate then tsn is? That's laughable in and of itself. Tsn>>>>>sportsnet!

What's laughable is your continual dismissal of arguments without providing any counter arguments or evidence to the contrary. In essence your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) follow the same format, I think X, therefore Y is out of the question.

If you believe TSN is a better resource than Sportsnet than prove it, or at the very least elaborate on your reasoning for such an opinon. TSN>>>SPNET is not an argument, nor is it a fact, from from it in fact. It's an opinon, which isolated from evidence and/or reasoning is laughable, in and of itself....

The only proof that needs to be presented is watching the channel's and going to the websites.. they prove themselves. What's sportsnets favourite thing to stuff down your throat? Baseball? and what is TSNs? Hockey!!

Bob McKenzie & Darren Dreger to Nick Kyperos & Millard?

Also, I think Kyle has proven which is the better site with the "Z" database.. and you claiming Sportsnet is more reliable is nothing more than opinion as well so don't start that shit lol.

Like I said before, if you have an issue with position eligibility, I as an admin will ONLY recognize TSN, thank you very much!

[MSP4LYFE]

We are a fantasy keeper league, where we maintain teams year to year (week to week if you are shiv).

Your main argument against TSN is that it is inaccurate as it uses what happened last year to determine its positions. Thus many players have dual eligibility on TSN.
Versus Sportsnet that has players listed as what they should be playing this year.

Question.. should be playing based off what? Based off reports? Based on camps?
I don't agree with that. How is assigning positions more accurate (ala Sportsnet) because the coach doesn't know, nor does the player himself know specifically what position he will be starting and playing all season.

Using last season as a measuring stick to go forward each season in terms of positions makes the most sense, I'd rather go with TSN which has some continuity (Like our league) vs Sportsnet which has assigned only one position per player based off what exactly?

That doesn't make sportsnet more accurate it just makes it more selective, I'd rather go with the website that uses last years values and doesn't change them till they know what will be happening this year.

TSN we would have continuity season to season, vs Sportsnet we'd have to reset every dual eligible player every offseason. I'd rather do it based off whats happened in the past vs what with no proof SNET thinks will happen in the future.

To be honest we should just stick with CBS and Ask an admin for changes like Mike suggested as this is already getting crazy.

Reports and camps are far more accurate than what happened last season (often due to events that are not consistent with the future I.E. injuries). Furthermore, the plan was not merely to use SPNET, but rather use SPNET for initial positions, and than expand on those with real time evidence (watching games, reading reports, etc.) to determine dual eligibility.

To elaborate further, TSN does not make sense, as their updates during the season are only relevent in that they add dual eligibility to players who don't already have it, the ones that do are not going to be stripped of it mid season, because according to the skeptics it does not give managers enough time to adjust. Rendering TSN's up to date information completely and utterly useless to us.

I agree with you're last point, if we aren't going to use SPNET + Committee than we might as well revert back to CBS, it is the selection that most closely resembles a "liberal" option.

[MSP4LYFE]

So you`re telling me sportsnet is more accurate then tsn is? That's laughable in and of itself. Tsn>>>>>sportsnet!

What's laughable is your continual dismissal of arguments without providing any counter arguments or evidence to the contrary. In essence your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) follow the same format, I think X, therefore Y is out of the question.

If you believe TSN is a better resource than Sportsnet than prove it, or at the very least elaborate on your reasoning for such an opinon. TSN>>>SPNET is not an argument, nor is it a fact, from from it in fact. It's an opinon, which isolated from evidence and/or reasoning is laughable, in and of itself....

The only proof that needs to be presented is watching the channel's and going to the websites.. they prove themselves. What's sportsnets favourite thing to stuff down your throat? Baseball? and what is TSNs? Hockey!!

Bob McKenzie & Darren Dreger to Nick Kyperos & Millard?

Also, I think Kyle has proven which is the better site with the "Z" database.. and you claiming Sportsnet is more reliable is nothing more than opinion as well so don't start that shit lol.

Like I said before, if you have an issue with position eligibility, I as an admin will ONLY recognize TSN, thank you very much!

TSN and SPNET both provide substantial hockey coverage nationally, so that's a non issue, nor is your comparison of Bob Mackenzie and Darren Dreger to Nick Kypreos and Darren Millard, you do realize they don't run the website's hockey database right...?

Furthermore, I did not present the argument that SPNET is more reliable than TSN as a blanket statement like you have, I presented names, and a brief conclusion of my comparative analysis betweent the two sites.

Even still you are hiding behind blanket statements, and non argumentative rebuttals, such as "I think Kyle has proven which is the better site with the "Z" database." Isolated from evidence and reasoning these statements are void of meaning.

As for your last comment, it too means nothing. As demonstrated by Bryan, the CC NEVER voted on TSN as a primary source, but rather the use of a primary source, therefore you have no right to recognize a single source, thank you very much.

[Scott]

LOL

Kareem, as an admin I can determine which site I'll use. The CC decided to use ONE single source and I'm going to choose TSN. I'm absolutely ok with being unbiased or not using multiple sites as reference and this is abiding by what the CC has decided. Mike and Matt or free to use the site they chose, that'll be up to them.

Quite frankly, I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. Some will agree and some will disagree, that's up to them but this is what is happening in terms of my position on the issue and that's that!!

Thank you very much

[MSP4LYFE]

LOL

Kareem, as an admin I can determine which site I'll use. The CC decided to use ONE single source and I'm going to choose TSN. I'm absolutely ok with being unbiased or not using multiple sites as reference and this is abiding by what the CC has decided. Mike and Matt or free to use the site they chose, that'll be up to them.

Quite frankly, I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. Some will agree and some will disagree, that's up to them but this is what is happening in terms of my position on the issue and that's that!!

Thank you very much

Raptactics everyone...Openly admits to using one source irrespective of the CC's pending decision. I don't need to say anything more, you've done it all for me.

[Scott]

LOL

Kareem, as an admin I can determine which site I'll use. The CC decided to use ONE single source and I'm going to choose TSN. I'm absolutely ok with being unbiased or not using multiple sites as reference and this is abiding by what the CC has decided. Mike and Matt or free to use the site they chose, that'll be up to them.

Quite frankly, I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. Some will agree and some will disagree, that's up to them but this is what is happening in terms of my position on the issue and that's that!!

Thank you very much

Raptactics everyone...Openly admits to using one source irrespective of the CC's pending decision. I don't need to say anything more, you've done it all for me.

There is no pending decision tbh lol it's already been decided.

[MSP4LYFE]

There is no pending decision tbh lol it's already been decided.

Do me a favour and quote (verbatim) the question in the CC poll.

[Robin Hood]

THIS ARGUMENT NEEDS TO STOP HERE.

READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT!

people are going to argue for ever about which is better, TSN or SNET. you guys are not solving anything. before this issue was brought up we had a VERY SOLID system in place:

1. If there is a conflict of eligibility with a player, bring it up with an admin with proof and it will be solved.
2. There is no step 2.

I ask you now, this entire debate is about maybe 5-10 players:

1. I think EVERYONE can agree and has no problem with Zetterberg, Marleau etc getting dual eligibility. that is our common ground.
2. If this is about a player like Adams for example, TSN is a legitimate source and scott has it as back up to give Adams eligibility. imo thats PERFECTLy fine. im competing against him this year and adams helps him. but honestly, fair is fair. and TSN acknowledges that. .
3. If this is about a player like one of Oshie/Backes, well our current system makes it NECESSARY that one of them is a center and the other is dual-eligible. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with this. cases like this are easy for Admins to solve. If you guys remember when the Oshie/Backes thing came up, it was solved in a day.
4. TSN, SNET, YAHOO, CBS are all fine with me. But if we want to limit it to just TSN AND SNET thats fine too. WHO FUCKING CARES. OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN WORKING. LETS MOVE ON

[Scott]

There is no pending decision tbh lol it's already been decided.

Do me a favour and quote (verbatim) the question in the CC poll.

What poll?

[Scott]

THIS ARGUMENT NEEDS TO STOP HERE.

READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT!

people are going to argue for ever about which is better, TSN or SNET. you guys are not solving anything. before this issue was brought up we had a VERY SOLID system in place:

1. If there is a conflict of eligibility with a player, bring it up with an admin with proof and it will be solved.
2. There is no step 2.

I ask you now, this entire debate is about maybe 5-10 players:

1. I think EVERYONE can agree and has no problem with Zetterberg, Marleau etc getting dual eligibility. that is our common ground.
2. If this is about a player like Adams for example, TSN is a legitimate source and scott has it as back up to give Adams eligibility. imo thats PERFECTLy fine. im competing against him this year and adams helps him. but honestly, fair is fair. and TSN acknowledges that. .
3. If this is about a player like one of Oshie/Backes, well our current system makes it NECESSARY that one of them is a center and the other is dual-eligible. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with this. cases like this are easy for Admins to solve. If you guys remember when the Oshie/Backes thing came up, it was solved in a day.
4. TSN, SNET, YAHOO, CBS are all fine with me. But if we want to limit it to just TSN AND SNET thats fine too. WHO FUCKING CARES. OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN WORKING. LETS MOVE ON

Shiv, you're 100% right man.. I think Kareem brought this up to stir shit up, I really do.. it's the way Kareem is lol.

[MSP4LYFE]

THIS ARGUMENT NEEDS TO STOP HERE.

READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT!

people are going to argue for ever about which is better, TSN or SNET. you guys are not solving anything. before this issue was brought up we had a VERY SOLID system in place:

1. If there is a conflict of eligibility with a player, bring it up with an admin with proof and it will be solved.
2. There is no step 2.

I ask you now, this entire debate is about maybe 5-10 players:

1. I think EVERYONE can agree and has no problem with Zetterberg, Marleau etc getting dual eligibility. that is our common ground.
2. If this is about a player like Adams for example, TSN is a legitimate source and scott has it as back up to give Adams eligibility. imo thats PERFECTLy fine. im competing against him this year and adams helps him. but honestly, fair is fair. and TSN acknowledges that. .
3. If this is about a player like one of Oshie/Backes, well our current system makes it NECESSARY that one of them is a center and the other is dual-eligible. I HAVE NO PROBLEM with this. cases like this are easy for Admins to solve. If you guys remember when the Oshie/Backes thing came up, it was solved in a day.
4. TSN, SNET, YAHOO, CBS are all fine with me. But if we want to limit it to just TSN AND SNET thats fine too. WHO FUCKING CARES. OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN WORKING. LETS MOVE ON

Your ignoring multiple key issues, the debate isn't limited to X v. Y if it were, this wouldn't be such an ongoing hot topic. So please don't treat it like one.

The issue with using the intial system is that multiple resources contradict one another, and since there is no difference between the validity of sportsnet and TSN (under the intial system), there is no difference between making TSN the sole source, and making all big sources credible, either way you can still use TSN to prove roster eligibility...

Finally, you're last point is very subjective, "The system has been working", for who exactly? Obviously not everyone, if that were the case this wouldn't be an issue would it? You're rebuttal is more than likely going to be as follows, yes it's not perfect, but it does not disrupt the system. That is true, but if the sole purpose were merely to "not disrupt the system" than why make any changes at all?

[MSP4LYFE]

What poll?

The one that asks whether pony's are real or not...