David Backes Value Decreases...

[MSP4LYFE]

I'd prefer to list the names of the sites, so it's the same for everyone.

[Mike]

Then just use common sense and don't try to game the damn system.

Common sense obviously isn't working, or we wouldn't be having this conversation, for the tenth time...

Are you serious? This isn't very fucking difficult. If you come to me with some random bleacher report article I will turn you down. If you come to me with game sheets showing a player hasn't taken a draw in two weeks that is acceptable.

You've personally given me position eligbility with a report that was the equivalent of a bleacher report, so let's not make this seem like a black and white issue, when in reality, it's far from it...

K, I'm done with this non-issue. I know this is nigh impossible for you Kareem but just try to be honest and we will be OK.

[Scott]

I'd say legit sites are:

TSN
Yahoo
CBS
NHL.com (the players team site)

Also, not a depth chart but the players profile.

[Nick]

I'd say legit sites are:

TSN
Yahoo
CBS
NHL.com (the players team site)

Also, not a depth chart but the players profile.

but what if they contradict?

[Nick]

we need some honesty here, not just people stuck focusing on their own team. Its frigging easy to trade in this league.

[shooker]

I think the big deal here isn't coming to mike/scott to get players switched to wing or center, that has always been reasonable. The issue here is those players that have switched position and it greatly flatters a teams stats because of it. That person will never come to you guys and say hey could you please switch him to center because I am an honset person and I know its right lol. That shit will never happen, ever. That is the "issue" here, the none issue is being allowed to change players with proper documentation because that has already been discussed. What should and will be discussed is more so what we should do about those players that people do not want to change as that is the issue.

[Scott]

The only way to solve this issue to please everyone is eliminate FOWs as a catergory all together. We should add a catergory that all players score in such as takeaways in place of FOWs.

[inferno31]

This is a very difficult topic to address.

One you can't really strip a players eligibility say 2-3 weeks or even later into the season. It'll create chaos, say you do so to a team that has the max amount of centers but one of their wingers is playing center now. If you do so he'll have to put one of his players on the bench to have a full roster, causing either him to be over the cap or ice an incomplete roster. Its very difficult change to implement once the season has begun or even without fair notice for the team to make the needed adjustments.

If you go around adding position eligibility without taking away the previous position you had it really will end up messing up the faceoff taken stat. As it is now, teams have players who take faceoffs and soon as its taken they play a wing like position. It's difficult then to judge what a center is, he takes faceoffs yes but plays wing the rest of the time.

In addressing this issue you have to realize its a can of worms, its unfair to strip eligibilities without giving enough time for a team to react and do something about it (also putting them in salary and roster trouble), but you can't also go around adding it without proof. Hockey is variable players play different positions and different lines all the time. A guy whose listed as a center may not even play center that entire game, let alone the season.

Yahoo does it by saying if a player plays a certain position for a certain amount of time its dual listed. But they also often have forward spots etc. Which we don't.

Ideally you shouldn't strip eligibilities (outside what CBS does) during the season, and then address this issue in the off season and consider changing our roster set up accordingly. Yeah you can say its unfair to do so, but teams have built their teams accordingly, you shouldn't go changing the rules so late in the game.

As for what Scott said yeah you can eliminate faceoffs and replace it but again thats something to do next season.

[shooker]

This is a very difficult topic to address.

One you can't really strip a players eligibility say 2-3 weeks or even later into the season. It'll create chaos, say you do so to a team that has the max amount of centers but one of their wingers is playing center now. If you do so he'll have to put one of his players on the bench to have a full roster, causing either him to be over the cap or ice an incomplete roster. Its very difficult change to implement once the season has begun or even without fair notice for the team to make the needed adjustments.

If you go around adding position eligibility without taking away the previous position you had it really will end up messing up the faceoff taken stat. As it is now, teams have players who take faceoffs and soon as its taken they play a wing like position. It's difficult then to judge what a center is, he takes faceoffs yes but plays wing the rest of the time.

In addressing this issue you have to realize its a can of worms, its unfair to strip eligibilities without giving enough time for a team to react and do something about it (also putting them in salary and roster trouble), but you can't also go around adding it without proof. Hockey is variable players play different positions and different lines all the time. A guy whose listed as a center may not even play center that entire game, let alone the season.

Yahoo does it by saying if a player plays a certain position for a certain amount of time its dual listed. But they also often have forward spots etc. Which we don't.

Ideally you shouldn't strip eligibilities (outside what CBS does) during the season, and then address this issue in the off season and consider changing our roster set up accordingly. Yeah you can say its unfair to do so, but teams have built their teams accordingly, you shouldn't go changing the rules so late in the game.

As for what Scott said yeah you can eliminate faceoffs and replace it but again thats something to do next season.

I would be more than happy with a once a year thing. If a guy met a certain criteria for fow (regardless if he plays wing) he should be considered a center and should be listed as one for the next year. If you want to switch a player then go and ask but again proper stats and documention will still be needed

[MSP4LYFE]

This is a very difficult topic to address.

One you can't really strip a players eligibility say 2-3 weeks or even later into the season. It'll create chaos, say you do so to a team that has the max amount of centers but one of their wingers is playing center now. If you do so he'll have to put one of his players on the bench to have a full roster, causing either him to be over the cap or ice an incomplete roster. Its very difficult change to implement once the season has begun or even without fair notice for the team to make the needed adjustments.

If you go around adding position eligibility without taking away the previous position you had it really will end up messing up the faceoff taken stat. As it is now, teams have players who take faceoffs and soon as its taken they play a wing like position. It's difficult then to judge what a center is, he takes faceoffs yes but plays wing the rest of the time.

In addressing this issue you have to realize its a can of worms, its unfair to strip eligibilities without giving enough time for a team to react and do something about it (also putting them in salary and roster trouble), but you can't also go around adding it without proof. Hockey is variable players play different positions and different lines all the time. A guy whose listed as a center may not even play center that entire game, let alone the season.

Yahoo does it by saying if a player plays a certain position for a certain amount of time its dual listed. But they also often have forward spots etc. Which we don't.

Ideally you shouldn't strip eligibilities (outside what CBS does) during the season, and then address this issue in the off season and consider changing our roster set up accordingly. Yeah you can say its unfair to do so, but teams have built their teams accordingly, you shouldn't go changing the rules so late in the game.

As for what Scott said yeah you can eliminate faceoffs and replace it but again thats something to do next season.

You bring up good points, perhaps we should just keep the status quo, and take it to the CC in severe cases (I.E. Richard Park and David Backes last season)?

[armandtanzarian]

So how long will i have to wait till Comrie gets wing eligibility? Very important as i have him as wing. Either that or Kesler gets his RW,C?

I've said this a dozen times, admins have to ability to modify eligibility on CBS. If CBS doesn't alter stuff themselves by the start of the season we will make amendments, upon request, and with proper documentation.

Righty oh then. I would like to request Comrie get dual eligibility.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio ... l-penguins

[armandtanzarian]

And just to add fuel to the fire TSN has Comrie as dual W/C. Yahoo as a LW, NHL and CBS has him as Center. He is an easy one as it is known he will be a winger but for the more difficult players this is a prime example of conflict.

[Nick]

I support that switch, but not dual eligibility; I dislike us of the heading on the team side -> but rather because last season, to end the season in specific, he was not a Centre -> he took around 1 faceoff per game.

Lets be logical here, just ask/look if the guy is a fucking centre of not.


Going into the season :
Ryan Kesler took over 1400 draws, pure pure centre, to suggest otherwise is retarded.

David Backes took over a 1000 draws last year, was #2 on the team... He's a centre

Richards Park took over a 1000 draws last year, #3 on the team.... He's a centre

Claude Giroux took over 600 faceoffs last year, #4 on the team... He's a centre

Steve Begin took almost 700 last year, #3 on the team... He's a centre

Craig Adams took 550+ draws, #3 on the team, #2 pk centreman... he's a centre

Patrick Sharp took 450, #4 on the team (with way more GP)... he's dual eligible IMO as he's the high end of the grey area

Steve Ott took 350, #5 on the team, he should be dual eligible

Andrew Cogliano took almost 400 he should be dual eligible

Tomas Fleischmann & Brooks Laich are both just under 400, #4/5 on the team, both should start dual eligible

T.J. Oshie took 153 draws, almost none to end the season , iMO he should start as a pure winger

Mike Comrie took 47 draws , #10 on the team, and should be a pure winger


a GM will notice when his wingers start suddenly loading up on faceoffs, iMO if for more then 4 weeks a player is playing in another position a "notice of position change" should be given, with a 2 week notice, after which the players position is formally changed.

Logic is our friend, not poorly update position listings on player bio's.

[Scott]

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2475 <--- RWer

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=1837 <--- RW/C

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/pl ... raig-adams <--- RW

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8465166 <--- RW from his team's site

Craig Adams is a winger and there's the documented proof..

[armandtanzarian]

Boys, I dont thnk we will ever agree on this issue. I like your logic though Nick. Faceoffs taken cant be forged...

All the sites listed conflict on multiple occasions. I really think that honesty should be prevalent but it has been stated by a few that they will not be honest if they have the chance so with that said this needs to be clarified as to not be subjective. Its really too bad. The main issue really is the wingers taking massive amounts of Faceoffs and basically being centers but not being recognized as centers. It is isan advantage when we have FOW as a category. Right now is is kind of subjective and if it is know that people are going to exploit it and not be honest we need to get this topic clarified before season start.

[Nick]

So we have Scott, Kareem (previously) and Shiv all protecting their best interest, no shockers there.

562 faceoffs taken, despite having 2 of the most over-used 1-2 face-off men in the game in front of him...

I know Adams played with Rupp & Talbot to start the year some centre there... however he played centre more often then not, sometimes between Goddard & Rupp, on the #2pk with Dupuis, or between Kennedy & Cooke

[shooker]

Imo there is a big difference in real life between a guy who takes face offs and plays the wing and a pure center. In bbkl there really isnt. We dont take into consideration when on the ice the player is playing but what stats that player is accumulating. We need face offs in the scoring to put more value on centers as there is in real life (hence teams having their best players play center) but we have position requirements to make things fair or people would never give up their centers. These players for all intense and purpose in h2h are centers, bottom line.

[Scott]

Imo there is a big difference in real life between a guy who takes face offs and plays the wing and a pure center. In bbkl there really isnt. We dont take into consideration when on the ice the player is playing but what stats that player is accumulating. We need face offs in the scoring to put more value on centers as there is in real life (hence teams having their best players play center) but we have position requirements to make things fair or people would never give up their centers. These players for all intense and purpose in h2h are centers, bottom line.

But if these "pure centres" need to maintain their value, why can't a player with dual eligibility maintain his? Obviously we use these hockey sites to back things up for a reason and this is exactly it! I dunno, I just feel there's nothing wrong with gaining an advantage with a few FOs from a winger

[MSP4LYFE]

Nick said the grey area is 400 FOW, so let's put a mandatory position switch on any winger(s) who hits 450 or more FOW (not attempts) during the season. It's not subjective, it's easy to police, and is a sure fire way to ensure centers don't get wing eligibility.

Furthermore, we need to eliminate the subjectivity involved in position switches, most sites contradict themselves, for that reason I think admins should only change a position IF a minimum of three major sources back up said GM's claims, BUT not if it goes against the rule mentioned above.


Thoughts?

[shooker]

Nick said the grey area is 400 FOW, so let's put a mandatory position switch on any winger(s) who hits 450 or more FOW (not attempts) during the season. It's not subjective, it's easy to police, and is a sure fire way to ensure centers don't get wing eligibility.

Furthermore, we need to eliminate the subjectivity involved in position switches, most sites contradict themselves, for that reason I think admins should only change a position IF a minimum of three major sources back up said GM's claims, BUT not if it goes against the rule mentioned above.


Thoughts?

love it!