Week 19 Talk

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Robin Hood
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Robin Hood »

dave1959 wroteCOLON
The BBKL Insider wroteCOLON
Nick wroteCOLON CBJ not making it seems crazy, shows how much getting hot in h2h can make a difference :)
i 100% disagree with this statement.

Building a H2H team that consistantly hits 6-8 cats a night isn't about getting hot or going cold - it's about staying consistant, which they do. The issue with the blue jackets this year is the lack of trades and a really banged-up roster. Nothing was done to improve an injured roster, and thus the results speak for themself.
wasn't for lack of trying...but I'm not going to make trades if they don't improve my team.
You're lying to yourself if you actually believe this. I've heard of many offers from other GMs (not including ones from myself) that were rejected even though they would have helped your team.

I think what Matt Bruyns "got" as a new GM is something most new GMs miss. And that is: yes, you should make trades that improve your roster. But if you sit on your roster a LOT of pieces will begin to lose value. Prime example is Penner. I think you could have had stupidness for Penner when he was on a roll at the start of the year. Instead you sat on him and look now. No one will want him again. Making trades is critical to maintaining competitiveness/retaining value. Sometimes, that involves taking a slight hit. All of the top teams have remained at the top for a reason.
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Mike
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Mike »

Penner could still bounce back in value. Wouldn't be the first time.
Sensfanjosh
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Sensfanjosh »

A lot of GMs will say Penner is rolling hot and the production isn't real to try and lower value too, my talks with Dave have all been pretty good, just nothing that has been a fit for us both.
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Bruyns
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Bruyns »

At least he didn't make a bunch of terrible trades and hurt the BJs long term. The team still has Kopitar, Kane, Phaneuf and Dubinsky and he could have foolishly traded one away for depth and still not be a contender. The team is fine it is just lacking quality depth, a few astute moves in the offseason and he will be in the playoff race again next season.

I do think Dave should try and be more active in the trade market, but this league is also full of vultures looking to capitalize on a rookie GM and make their team better at his expense. That coupled with not many valuable prospects and picks makes it tough to pull off a bunch of trades.
CAM
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by CAM »

Bruyns wroteCOLONAt least he didn't make a bunch of terrible trades and hurt the BJs long term. The team still has Kopitar, Kane, Phaneuf and Dubinsky and he could have foolishly traded one away for depth and still not be a contender. The team is fine it is just lacking quality depth, a few astute moves in the offseason and he will be in the playoff race again next season.

I do think Dave should try and be more active in the trade market, but this league is also full of vultures looking to capitalize on a rookie GM and make their team better at his expense. That coupled with not many valuable prospects and picks makes it tough to pull off a bunch of trades.
I like you, you get it and your not scared to face the vultures. Great post.
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Nick
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Nick »

Dave's Blue Jackets are top 6 in a ton of categories on the season, that's a really good sign of consistency - however when looking a little more than skin deep, the difference is actually the switch to the Eastern conference, against playoff teams in the east he is 1-4-2, compared to last year when against fellow western conference playoff teams he went 6-2-1. H2H so your comparisons matter :)
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Bruyns
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Bruyns »

CAM wroteCOLON
Bruyns wroteCOLONAt least he didn't make a bunch of terrible trades and hurt the BJs long term. The team still has Kopitar, Kane, Phaneuf and Dubinsky and he could have foolishly traded one away for depth and still not be a contender. The team is fine it is just lacking quality depth, a few astute moves in the offseason and he will be in the playoff race again next season.

I do think Dave should try and be more active in the trade market, but this league is also full of vultures looking to capitalize on a rookie GM and make their team better at his expense. That coupled with not many valuable prospects and picks makes it tough to pull off a bunch of trades.
I like you, you get it and your not scared to face the vultures. Great post.
Thanks and I'm also guilty of making semi low ball offers to Dave haha

A few weeks back tried Wiz + BUF 2nd + Cliche for Dubinsky. Would have paid more if he had any interest, but I'm sure he has had worse offers than that.
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Robin Hood
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Robin Hood »

Yes the East is tougher but that CLB team should be making it at least in the 8th seed. The reason it hasn't is lack of adjustments. Look at every top team in the league. It changes every year in some way to adjust for the change in player stats and values. It's how you maintain performance. And "standing pat" is the reason CLB has fallen out.

Same thing happened with Thom after he took over Kareem's team. But he has finally put his mark on that team. It was Kareem's team for a while there which was good 2 years ago but without adjustments, it wasn't able to remain as good.

I think the BIGGEST thing that long-time BBKLers "get" is that there are certain performance indicators that show how a player will do in the future. They "get" which players will improve and which players will fall off for the most part. It's part of the learning process here and a lot of it is trial and error and seeing what works and what doesn't.

The biggest mistake I see GMs making is not selling players at the right time. This is what prevents a team from adjusting (Not picking on particular GMs here but look at the players below).

Tlusty - Thom
Ranger - Lee
Penner - Dave
Conacher - Peter

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. The reason they come to mind is because I know there was a time in this league when a LOT of GMs wanted those players and were willing to severely overpay for them. Holding them through their peak has only hurt those teams as certain players have their peak value for only one season due to factors like cap/a hot season/stretch.

Anyways, /rant.
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The BBKL Insider
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by The BBKL Insider »

Lets get this straight, i'm not attacking dave, i'm pointing out the obvious.

If a GM is happy to ride out his injuries i'm not here to judge, and like others have stated that roster still has a lot of top end talent. That said, if Dave really wanted to make the playoffs he could have with a few minor trades. There is a lot of top end talent on that roster and i'm sure a few people with depth would have paid out of their bums to get Kopitar or Dion.

But if Dave was happy and wanted to keep those players it's his choice, he's the GM.
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The BBKL Insider
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by The BBKL Insider »

Also, it would be nice if Kareem was active again, he's not nearly as stupid as his record indicates.
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Bruyns
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Bruyns »

I knew his pick was going to be a lottery pick likely top 5 which was why it was the one pick I was not going to trade this season, but I'm surprised he might finish last overall.
Lee
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Lee »

SuperMario wroteCOLONYes the East is tougher but that CLB team should be making it at least in the 8th seed. The reason it hasn't is lack of adjustments. Look at every top team in the league. It changes every year in some way to adjust for the change in player stats and values. It's how you maintain performance. And "standing pat" is the reason CLB has fallen out.

Same thing happened with Thom after he took over Kareem's team. But he has finally put his mark on that team. It was Kareem's team for a while there which was good 2 years ago but without adjustments, it wasn't able to remain as good.

I think the BIGGEST thing that long-time BBKLers "get" is that there are certain performance indicators that show how a player will do in the future. They "get" which players will improve and which players will fall off for the most part. It's part of the learning process here and a lot of it is trial and error and seeing what works and what doesn't.

The biggest mistake I see GMs making is not selling players at the right time. This is what prevents a team from adjusting (Not picking on particular GMs here but look at the players below).

Tlusty - Thom
Ranger - Lee
Penner - Dave
Conacher - Peter

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. The reason they come to mind is because I know there was a time in this league when a LOT of GMs wanted those players and were willing to severely overpay for them. Holding them through their peak has only hurt those teams as certain players have their peak value for only one season due to factors like cap/a hot season/stretch.

Anyways, /rant.
So you are saying that you get it but you were still willing to give up a 1st + more for Ranger.

Right.
CAM
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by CAM »

Bruyns wroteCOLONI knew his pick was going to be a lottery pick likely top 5 which was why it was the one pick I was not going to trade this season, but I'm surprised he might finish last overall.
You have a wealth of riches coming to you. I feel lucky to have gotten Smith out of you. That has really worked out well.
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Robin Hood
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Robin Hood »

Lee wroteCOLON
SuperMario wroteCOLONYes the East is tougher but that CLB team should be making it at least in the 8th seed. The reason it hasn't is lack of adjustments. Look at every top team in the league. It changes every year in some way to adjust for the change in player stats and values. It's how you maintain performance. And "standing pat" is the reason CLB has fallen out.

Same thing happened with Thom after he took over Kareem's team. But he has finally put his mark on that team. It was Kareem's team for a while there which was good 2 years ago but without adjustments, it wasn't able to remain as good.

I think the BIGGEST thing that long-time BBKLers "get" is that there are certain performance indicators that show how a player will do in the future. They "get" which players will improve and which players will fall off for the most part. It's part of the learning process here and a lot of it is trial and error and seeing what works and what doesn't.

The biggest mistake I see GMs making is not selling players at the right time. This is what prevents a team from adjusting (Not picking on particular GMs here but look at the players below).

Tlusty - Thom
Ranger - Lee
Penner - Dave
Conacher - Peter

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. The reason they come to mind is because I know there was a time in this league when a LOT of GMs wanted those players and were willing to severely overpay for them. Holding them through their peak has only hurt those teams as certain players have their peak value for only one season due to factors like cap/a hot season/stretch.

Anyways, /rant.
So you are saying that you get it but you were still willing to give up a 1st + more for Ranger.

Right.
http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1074 ... in#p168469
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Lee
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Lee »

If GP is all you were looking for, you sure knocked it out of the parkvalue wise. Koekkoek won't even play a game this year!

Not sure what that has to do with my statement anyways.
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bma
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by bma »

My personal trade conversations with Dave have been frustrating. That is all I can say.
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Nick
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by Nick »

This week is not looking like it will help Cliff's playoff hopes.
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dave1959
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by dave1959 »

bma wroteCOLONMy personal trade conversations with Dave have been frustrating. That is all I can say.

why, because I won't just GIVE you Kane??
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kimmer
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by kimmer »

ya just watch out dave bma lowballs
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dave1959
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Re: Week 19 Talk

Post by dave1959 »

The BBKL Insider wroteCOLONLets get this straight, i'm not attacking dave, i'm pointing out the obvious.

If a GM is happy to ride out his injuries i'm not here to judge, and like others have stated that roster still has a lot of top end talent. That said, if Dave really wanted to make the playoffs he could have with a few minor trades. There is a lot of top end talent on that roster and i'm sure a few people with depth would have paid out of their bums to get Kopitar or Dion.

But if Dave was happy and wanted to keep those players it's his choice, he's the GM.
As Matt pointed out, I have ZERO depth, so in order to improve my team I would have to get 2-3 for 1 and that wasn't happening...at least not 2-3 decent players.

What would be the point of trading Kane for Hossa, for example??
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