Chicago / Philadelphia

[Lee]

To Chicago:
Marty Turco
Matt Lashoff
Riley Holzapfel

To Philadelphia:
2012 1st round pick (Chicago)
Dana Tyrell
Michael Stone

[anton]

confirm

[Tony]

Meh ...

[Lee]

I got my first, Stone is a huge offensive dman who put up amazing numbers in the WHL during the regular season and was the best offensive dman in the playoffs and Tyrell has some good value I`m more than happy with my return.

[Robin Hood]

I just want the leagues opinion. When kezia first put turco on the block, I offered him Dave Bolland + Ray Emery for him. He rejected the deal saying it was not close to what turco was worth. Talks started up again a little while later, but i stated that i dont think I could even do Bolland + Emery anymore as I thought it was overpayment and he still wanted Bolland + Emery +. i remember last time i asked something like this mashley took it the wrong way. but i seriously wanna know, am i crazy for thinking my initial offer of Bolland + Emery not MUCH MUCH better than what kezia got here? not only that he risked his GP for his 1st Round pick next year for this return.

[inferno31]

I just want the leagues opinion. When kezia first put turco on the block, I offered him Dave Bolland + Ray Emery for him. He rejected the deal saying it was not close to what turco was worth. Talks started up again a little while later, but i stated that i dont think I could even do Bolland + Emery anymore as I thought it was overpayment and he still wanted Bolland + Emery +. i remember last time i asked something like this mashley took it the wrong way. but i seriously wanna know, am i crazy for thinking my offer but wasnt my initial offer of Bolland + Emery not MUCH MUCH better than what kezia got here? not only that he risked his GP for his 1st Round pick next year for this return.

Emery has no contract and may not play again depending on his recovery. Bollands a great piece though, and I don't think that pick will be that high. To be honest for all the selling Kezia did I thought he'd get a better return.. Shit I hope I don't feel like this tomorrow.

[Robin Hood]

Emery has no contract and may not play again depending on his recovery. Bollands a great piece though, and I don't think that pick will be that high. To be honest for all the selling Kezia did I thought he'd get a better return.. Shit I hope I don't feel like this tomorrow.

imo bolland's value alone = turco.

[hong57]

imo bolland's value alone = turco.

meh.. bolland alone wouldn't do it.. (there's only 30 starters in this league) .. it isn't that bad like neel said it's a great piece but if you can throw in a goalie would loses like 40 games in the season then it's all gd lol if such goalie exists
and i'd take bolland over the 1st for sure

[Nick]

Emery has no contract and may not play again depending on his recovery. Bollands a great piece though, and I don't think that pick will be that high. To be honest for all the selling Kezia did I thought he'd get a better return.. Shit I hope I don't feel like this tomorrow.

imo bolland's value alone = turco.

and that simply proves you haven't been in the league during the season to truly see the effect goaltending has. Turco is the #1 on a great team... his value is higher then your giving credit.

[Robin Hood]

and that simply proves you haven't been in the league during the season to truly see the effect goaltending has. Turco is the #1 on a great team... his value is higher then your giving credit.

i think youre misinterpreting me.

this is yet another trade where prospects are being given far more value than a proven nhl player (Turco being one of them). not to mention emery has value too. if emery returns his value will = that of a starter eventually. granted the odds of that are risky. but tampa couldve gotten E(v) = a solid forward + (25% x NHL Starting goalie) for turco. 25% is an underestimate too.

im not at all here arguing that my deal was something he HAD to take. imo it was something that deserved consideration. but i didnt like it for myself either which is why i backed out. it just wasn't a good fit for both of us.

my point is that if bolland + emery was not enough, tyrell + stone + 1st CHI 2012 is worse.

tampa would have been MUCH better off keeping him especially when 1) he doesnt have a clear cut starter 2) needs the GP to ensure the quality of his 1st TBL 2011 pick which could be 1st overall.

[Nick]

a) 25% is grossly over-rating Emery's likelihood to return as a starter... your buddies with Neel, I'm sure he's told you how many goalies have had their careers ended by that injury.


b) 1st + Tyrell + Stone is comparable, or maybe greater then Bolland depending on what your looking for... he's never going to be a high end offensive weapon, and that 1st, regardless of what any of us might say about 2011, COULD be. Tyrell is not some smuck either. Stone is meh IMO, def not best o-dman in the playoffs...LOL


c) I'd rather Turco then all of those pieces, not for my team specifically (I'd grab Tyrell & the 1st, just cause none of the above players make my roster), but because he'll be the most important piece to the BBKL...


d) I just fucking lied, I'd take turco 100% over everything above, that bastard can ride bench until the curse hits.

ps-> that's why I volunteered to leave Philly... fucking goalie cursed.

[anton]

weird, i expected the 2nd deal to create more buzz than this one.

[Robin Hood]

d) I just fucking lied, I'd take turco 100% over everything above, that bastard can ride bench until the curse hits.

tampa would have been MUCH better off keeping him especially when 1) he doesnt have a clear cut starter 2) needs the GP to ensure the quality of his 1st TBL 2011 pick which could be 1st overall.

why do you argue with me when you agree with me? we can disagree on which offer was worse but the main point here is: why is philly trading turco when he DOES NOT have a starter? he is going to have to pay way MORE than tyrell + stone + 1st the MINUTE he realizes he needs a goalie. and no i do not count khabi as a sure thing. if philly misses the GP minimum and loses his 1st overall because of this trade that would be a SHAME.

[Nick]

losing his 1st is not the precedence, but then again... new year, and he'd have had the team all year... so it would be a new convo.


but... Khabi i thought was arrested for drunk driving? and hurt his back? Am I sleep-typing?


You said Bolland= Turco, and I disagree with that, IMO Turco >>> Bolland.... especially if you don't have a starter, Turco is a goalie for a contending team... given the # of wins he'll get and his salary. He'll have an effect on every week he's dressed... Bolland is a periphery guy and you need a reasonable # of them to win those categories.

[Robin Hood]

losing his 1st is not the precedence, but then again... new year, and he'd have had the team all year... so it would be a new convo.


but... Khabi i thought was arrested for drunk driving? and hurt his back? Am I sleep-typing?


You said Bolland= Turco, and I disagree with that, IMO Turco >>> Bolland.... especially if you don't have a starter, Turco is a goalie for a contending team... given the # of wins he'll get and his salary. He'll have an effect on every week he's dressed... Bolland is a periphery guy and you need a reasonable # of them to win those categories.

again we can disagree on my offers value vs antons. but my point is that is philly ends up being 1st or 2nd overall next year but is penalized one/two spots in the draft for missing GP, he could miss out on Adam Larsson or Couturier. thats a big blow imo to a team like his. not to mention. he couldve used to turco to you know, get another starting goalie LOL. why didnt he package turco + for another goalie that was maybe younger? the package he wanted for turco to begin with was wrong. he will have to pay through the NOSE for a starting goalie.

[Lee]

Or I could watch the waiver wire and pick up goalie like Gerber for free I don't think Edmonton is going with JDD and Dub again if Khabi is out for an extended period of time.

All in all, it's not what I asked for, but it's fairly close. Tbay fans are raving about Tyrell and how he he has a roster spot to lose. Stone was the best offensive Dman in the WHL this year, look it up. We'll see where the first lands. Everyone talks about how I should have taken value for Couture instead of need in Morin, Ross, 1st and 2nd... I took value in this trade.

Bolland isn't getting any better than what he is now. He's a great 3rd liner, but any piece that I took in the Turco deal has the chance to be better than that. I'm not building for this year.

I offered you a chance to better your offer and you declined.

[Robin Hood]

Or I could watch the waiver wire and pick up goalie like Gerber for free I don't think Edmonton is going with JDD and Dub again if Khabi is out for an extended period of time.

All in all, it's not what I asked for, but it's fairly close. Tbay fans are raving about Tyrell and how he he has a roster spot to lose. Stone was the best offensive Dman in the WHL this year, look it up. We'll see where the first lands. Everyone talks about how I should have taken value for Couture instead of need in Morin, Ross, 1st and 2nd... I took value in this trade.

Bolland isn't getting any better than what he is now. He's a great 3rd liner, but any piece that I took in the Turco deal has the chance to be better than that. I'm not building for this year.

I offered you a chance to better your offer and you declined.

like you said man i declined the bolland offer because it wasn't for me.

but im actually shocked you traded turco with no solid option to guarantee you GP going into next season. you need a lottery pick. if the type of propsect you get with that 1st pick drops simply because of gp it will suck.

personally when you put turco on the block i thought your asking price was too low. my plan was to buy him and then sell him for higher closer to the season/mid-season when the return would be MUCH greater than what you were asking for (i believe top 6 foward + prospect + 1st). assume your goalending does not work out and you actually run into trouble during the season, you will have to pay MUCH MUCH MORE than what you got here. and you will have to pay. because you need the GP for your 1st round pick next year.

you couldve EASILY kept turco till the trade deadline, gotten the GP till then and THEN traded turco to a team who needs a goalie for MUCH MORE.

that's all i'm saying. you didn't strategically think out this trade in the long run.

[Lee]

So Emery was going to be my solid option going into next year?

[Robin Hood]

So Emery was going to be my solid option going into next year?

did you not read what i wrote?

in your position with no goalie i would not have taken any of the available offers because of the reasons listed above. you shot yourself in the foot imo when you could easily just waited and found out what was going to happen to khabi/gerber/whoever AND you couldve gotten a much higher return.

[Scott]

Getting your 41 ggs and then trading your goalie probably would've been viewed as tanking and probably discussed. We can't allow blantant tanking.