Buds Board Keepers League

List of changes to default Fantrax positions pre 2014/15 season

Ho-sang --> W
Komarov --> W
Petrell --> W
W.Nylander --> W
A.Lee --> W
Jenner --> W
Kreider --> W
m.hoffman --> W
burish --> C
j,larsson --> C
matthias --> W
z.boychuk --> W
j.nolan --> W
spaling --> W
t.seguin --> W
haula --> C
horcoff --> W
colborne --> W
b.gibbons --> W
lazar --> W
rupp --> W
sheppard --> W
r.boucher --> W
loktionov --> W
o.moller --> W
r.carter --> W
b.nelson --> W
j.lindstrom --> W
lander --> W
rinaldo --> W
hendricks --> W
rakell --> C
j.winchester --> W
Ryan White --> C
Quinton Howden --> W
Sam Bennett --> C
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare -->W
M.A. Cliche --> C



2012/2013 Mid-season changes

VAN: Ryan Carter - C -> W
TOR: Andrew Shaw - W -> C, Leo Komarov - C -> W
SJS: Andrew Cogliano - C -> W
PHO: David Moss - C -> W, Daniel Briere - C -> W
PHI: Jonathan Huberdeau - C -> W
OTT: Ruslan Fedotenko - W -> C
FLA: Craig Adams - C -> W
CBJ: Alex Tanguay - W -> C
COL: Patrik Elias - C -> W
CAR: Ryan Garbutt - C -> W
CGY: Tom Pyatt - W -> C
BOS: Jerome Iginla - W -> C


Updates performed accordingly with the criteria specified here:
http://nhlnotes.com/bbkl/viewtopic.php? ... 23#p122569


Please note:
Late updates will be available upon request once players late to reach the 20gp threshold will get there. GMs will have a limited window to apply for the late update: from 20 to 22 gp AND PRIOR to roster lock of the 1st round of the BBKL playoffs; if the request is posted after the player has reached 23gp or after that roster lock, it won't be taken into consideration and the player will remain a C till the end of the season.




2012/2013 season starting List.

Please point out in this thread any omission/mistake you might notice.

PLEASE NOTE:
The list below does not cover all centers in the league:
even without appearing on the list, players who have yet to play enough games to be qualified accordingly with our criteria (less than 26 games last year and never 40 gp in one NHL season) could still be BBKL centers, depending on:
- how they were listed by the NHL when drafted: http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm
- how they are listed by CBS if they were never drafted (e.g. Marcel Mueller); unfortunately, that means for some players the starting position is still unknown, as CBS has yet to add several players. A glaring example is Roman Cervenka, who may be a C or a W depending on CBS decision once he gets added.



Anaheim
Getzlaf
s.koivu
Bonino
Cogliano (FOR=0.32)
c R.Pelley
c Macenauer
c* McMillan

Boston
P.Bergeron
Krejci
Kelly
G.Campbell
Peverley (FOR=0.34)

Buffalo
D.Roy
Hodgson
Ennis (FOR=0.41)
c* Hecht
c Boyes (FOR=0.31)
c Adam (FOR=0.40)
c M.Ellis

Calgary
O.Jokinen
Stajan
Backlund
Horak
c B.Jones
c D.Moss

Carolina
E.Staal
B.Sutter
J.Jokinen
Brent

Chicago
Bolland
Toews
Kruger
P.Kane
b Mayers
B.Morrison

Colorado
R.O’Reilly
P.Stastny
McClement
M.Duchene

Columbus
Letestu
D.Brassard
D.MacKenzie
c D.Boyce

Dallas
Fiddler
Ott
Ribeiro
Benn
c Burish
c Wandell
c Dowell

Detroit
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Helm
Abdelkader
c Emmerton

Edmonton
Horcoff
Belanger
Gagner
Hopkins
c Lander
c* J.Green

Florida
Weiss
Goc
Smithson
Matthias
c Santorelli
c Madden
c Tim Kennedy
c* Mark Cullen

Los Angeles
Kopitar
Stoll
M.Richards
J.Carter
c Fraser
c Loktionov (FOR=0.305)

Minnesota
Brodziak
M.Koivu
M.Cullen
W.Peters
c Christensen

Montreal
Plekanec
Desharnais
Eller
Gomez
c Nokelainen
c Geoffrion

Nashville
Fisher
Gaustad
Legwand
Spaling
c C.Smith

New Jersey
Elias
Henrique
Josefson
Zajac
c* Tim Sestito
c Mills

N.Y. Islanders
Tavares
Nielsen
Bailey
Reasoner

N.Y. Rangers
B.Richards
B.Boyle
Stepan
Dubinsky (FOR=0.315)
c J.Mitchell (FOR=0.31)

Ottawa
Spezza
Z.Smith
Turris
Konopka
c J.O’Brien
c J.Winchester
a* Regin

Philadelphia
Giroux
Briere
Couturier
Talbot
c B.Schenn

Phoenix
Gordon
Vermette
Hanzal
Langkow
c Chipchura

Pittsburgh
Malkin
Crosby
J.Staal
Vitale
c Park
c C.Adams (FOR=0.315)
c C.O’Reilly
c D.Jeffrey

San Jose
J.Thornton
Pavelski
Handzus
Couture
b D.Moore
c A.Desjardins

St.Louis
Backes
Berglund
Arnott
Sobotka
c Nichol
a* A. McDonald

Tampa Bay
Stamkos
Lecavalier
Thompson
A.Hall

Toronto
Bozak
Steckel
Grabovski
T.Connolly
c Lombardi

Vancouver
Kesler
H.Sedin
Pahlsson
Malhotra
b Lapierre

Washington
Laich
Backstrom
M.Johansson
Halpern
c M.Perreault
c Beagle
c K.Aucoin

Winnipeg
Little
Slater
Antropov
Burmistrov
c Stapleton

* means an exception applied, like going back to previous seasons



2012 ROOKIES CORRECTIONS

Players that don't meet GP requirements yet and need their CBS position corrected accordingly with their draft position on nhl.com:

Henrik Samuelsson C -> W http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... n=&round=1
Mikael Granlund C -> W http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... on=&round=1
Quinton Howden W -> C http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... on=&round=
Teemu Hartikainen W -> C http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... n=&round=6


FAKE DUAL ELIGIBILITIES ON CBS

We have no dual eligible players on BBKL anymore, but on CBS it was not possible to take away all of them: whereas you have 2 options on CBS, you're still only allowed to use your player in his BBKL position (your lineup will be otherwise deemed illegal and the pertinent sanctions applied).
For known CBS dual eligibilities, the right BBKL position is specified as follows.

CBS duals that can only be used as C :
Abdelkader
C.Adams
Begin
Jamie Benn
Burish
Dubinsky
Matt Ellis
Claude Giroux
A.Hall
Hecht
Jussi Jokinen
P.Kane
Mayers
A.McDonald
B. McMillan
Moss
Park
T.Ennis
Geoffrion
Tatar

CBS duals that can only be used as W :
H.Samuelsson
Josh Bailey
P.M.Bouchard
Bowman
Cammalleri
Comrie
Dalpe
Andrew Desjardins
Philippe Dupuis
Eakin
Filppula
K.Wellwood
Greening
M.Johansson
Ryan Johansen
Howden
T.Lewis
Marleau
Torrey Mitchell
P.Mueller
Petrell
Darrol Powe
Andrew Murray
Petersen
Matt Read
B.Richardson
T.Ruutu
Shannon
Seguin
Skinner
Tyrell
C.Wilson
McCormick
Johansen
Rupp
Wingels

______________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________

Changes performed at the '11/12 ASG break

W -> C
Jochen Hecht 300 FOT
Jason Pominville 293 FOT
Matt Ellis FOR = 156/404.5 = 0.38
Jussi Jokinen 555 FOT
Jamal Mayers 283 FOT
Patrick Kane 321 FOT
Jamie Benn 563 FOT
Evgeni Malkin
Richard Park 333 FOT

C -> W
Tuomo Ruutu
Toby Petersen
Valtteri Filppula 194/853.5 = 0.23
Trevor Lewis 139/483 = 0.29
Andrei Loktionov 107/356.5 = 0.30
John Mitchell 50/322 = 0.15
Patrick Marleau 261/966 = 0.27
Andrew Murray 15/300
Philippe Dupuis 30/314.5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2011/2012 season starting List.

Please point out in this thread any omission/mistake you might notice.


Anaheim
a Saku Koivu
a Ryan Getzlaf
a Todd Marchant
a Brandon McMillan
c Kyle Chipchura 40gp, 283fot, 319.5ice => FOR =.88 > 0.3
c Nick Bonino 26gp, 166fot, 254.5ice => FOR =.65 > 0.3

Boston
a Patrice Bergeron
a David Krejci
a Gregory Campbell
a Marc Savard
c Tyler Seguin FOR = .335
c Chris Kelly FOR = .73
c Rich Peverley FOR = .78

Buffalo
a Tim Connolly
a Derek Roy
a Jochen Hecht
a Paul Gaustad
c Cody McCormick FOR = .356

Calgary
a Olli Jokinen
a Matt Stajan
a Brendan Morrison
a Mikael Backlund
c David Moss FOR = .458
a* Daymon Langkow

Carolina
a Eric Staal
a Tuomo Ruutu
a Brandon Sutter

Chicago
a Jonathan Toews
a Patrick Sharp
a Dave Bolland
a Jake Dowell
c Ryan Johnson

Colorado
a Paul Stastny
a Matt Duchene
a Ryan O'Reilly
c Philippe Dupuis .49
c Jay McClement
c Fleischmann .32

Columbus
a Antoine Vermette
a Samuel Pahlsson
a Derick Brassard
a Derek MacKenzie
c Kyle Wilson FOR =.39

Dallas
a Mike Ribeiro
a Steve Ott
a Brad Richards
a Adam Burish
c Tom Wandell FOR =.49

Detroit
a Zetterberg
a Datsyuk
a Helm
a Filppula
c Abdelkader FOR =.47
c Kris Draper FOR =.34

Edmonton
a Cogliano
a Gagner
a Fraser
a Horcoff
c Brule FOR =.35

Florida
a Reasoner
a Santorelli
a Weiss
a Matthias
c Reinprecht FOR =.5
c Ryan Carter
c Tim Kennedy .39

Los Angeles
a Kopitar
a Stoll
a Handzus
a Lewis

Minnesota
Mikko Koivu
Brodziak
Madden
Cullen

Montreal
Plekanec
Gomez
Halpern
Desharnais
c Eller
c* Boyd

Nashville
Smithson
Legwand
Goc
Cal O'Reilly
b Spaling
c Fisher
a* Lombardi
a* Begin

New Jersey
Zajac
Elias
Zubrus
Pelley
c Josefson .65
c Tim Sestito .65
c Steckel

NY Islanders
Tavares
Konopka
Nielsen
Bailey

NY Rangers
Boyle
Dubisnky
Stepan
Anisimov
b Christensen
a* Drury

Ottawa
Spezza
Jesse Winchester
Zack Smith
Regin
c* Potulny

Philadelphia
Mike Richards
Briere
Giroux
Betts
b Carter

Phoenix
Belanger
Fiddler
Hanzal
Turris
c Ebbett

Pittsburgh
Crosby
Talbot
Jordan Staal
Letestu
c Craig Adams .48

San Jose
Thornton
Pavelski
Couture
Marleau
b Nichol

St Louis
Backes
Berglund
Sobotka
McDonald
b* Hensick

Tampa Bay
Lecavalier
Stamkos
Moore
Thompson
b Adam Hall

Toronto
Bozak
Grabovsky
Brent
Boyce
c John Mitchell .52
a* Zigomanis

Vancouver
Henrik Sedin
Malhotra
Kesler
Lapierre

Washington
Backstrom
Boyd Gordon
Johansson
Laich
c Mathieu Perreault
c* Arnott
c Jay Beagle .32

Winnipeg
Little
Burmistrov
Antropov
Slater
c* Schremp
c Stapleton .45


The list above does not cover all centers in the league:
even without appearing on the list, players who have yet to play enough games to be qualified accordingly with our criteria (less than 26 games last year and never 40 gp in one NHL season) could still be BBKL centers, depending on:
- how they were listed by the NHL when drafted: http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm (e.g. Ryan Johansen, Jaden Schwartz..)
- how they are listed by CBS if they were never drafted (e.g. Marcel Mueller, Chris Mueller..)


ROOKIES

Here will be progressively reported new positions (if due) for players that last year had less than 26 games and never reached 40 gp in one NHL season:

Silfverberg C -> W
Vincour W -> C
Greening C -> W
Bowman C -> W
Wannstrom C -> W
Khochlachev C -> W
Dalpe C -> W
Tatar W -> C http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... on=&round=


Please report in this thread about any rookie you notice to need his CBS position to be changed.
Note that the league will keep the rights to edit the rookie's position after the beginning of the season if found to be wrongly assessed. i.e. not reporting a mistaken position out of convenience (or distraction) won't benefit you: as soon as the player will become relevant a mistake will be probably spotted and fixed anyway.

the list looks gd so far.. not too far off..

List completed.

Please point out in this thread any omission/mistake you might notice.


Moving forward a decided to write down only relevant info:
first 4 names were given by criteria a) by default, only reported the FOR when i did calculate it (i.e. it was not an obvious guess to me) and player's first name only when significant.

Jussi Jokinen is not a center. that's categorically insane. He is 4th on his team in FOT but his % < 0.3 at 0.265. By this argument Iginla would be a C on Carolina. I have no problem with this method but there needs to be an appeal process because this method can easily omit obvious Ws and list them as Cs.

You have also missed Malkin and Oshie as Cs.

SuperMario wroteCOLONJussi Jokinen is not a center. that's categorically insane. He is 4th on his team in FOT but his % < 0.3 at 0.265. By this argument Iginla would be a C on Carolina. I have no problem with this method but there needs to be an appeal process because this method can easily omit obvious Ws and list them as Cs.

So Carolina is expected to play with only 3 centers?
Jussi is probably the only top 4 guy with a FOR <.3, tough break; still, should canes roster stay as it is he could very well record a >.3 FOR next season, which would actually make his assessed position right. Should it turn out to be wrong, it will be corrected at the ASG break, well before the key part of our season.

SuperMario wroteCOLONYou have also missed Malkin and Oshie as Cs.

they were not missed. They mostly played as wingers last season (FOR <.3)

kyuss wroteCOLON

SuperMario wroteCOLONJussi Jokinen is not a center. that's categorically insane. He is 4th on his team in FOT but his % < 0.3 at 0.265. By this argument Iginla would be a C on Carolina. I have no problem with this method but there needs to be an appeal process because this method can easily omit obvious Ws and list them as Cs.

So Carolina is expected to play with only 3 centers?
Jussi is probably the only top 4 guy with a FOR <.3, tough break; still, should canes roster stay as it is he could very well record a >.3 FOR next season, which would actually make his assessed position right. Should it turn out to be wrong, it will be corrected at the ASG break, well before the key part of our season.

SuperMario wroteCOLONYou have also missed Malkin and Oshie as Cs.

they were not missed. They mostly played as wingers last season (FOR <.3)

Mik, first of all, Malkin and Oshie will both be top 4 in FOT next year. Second, your argument omits the fact that with every rule there needs to be an appeal process to avoid incorrect categorization <--which is the objective here. Carolina does not play with 3 centers. They have other centers that play on line 4 lol. If every fucking fantasy site, nhl.com lists Jussi as a W, his for < 0.3, there is no way he should be listed as a C when he is #4 on his team lol. That is merely him getting a fo because his center got kicked out and he plays on the top 2 lines so it happens a lot. and I bet if every gm looked at that list there would be cases for 3-5 more guys. no one is against this system, but it is not perfect. Appeal processes are important part of every system. please do not make it sound like what you say goes.

I do have a proposed solution. Players that should be listed at C should be those whose FOR > 0.3. That solves all problems because the top 4 guys on every team would be > 0.3 anyways. As well any dual eligible guys get listed right. But at the same time a guy with 150 fow who is blatantly a W does not accidentally get listed as a C just like Iginla. This would help guys like Malkin and Oshie as well.

SuperMario wroteCOLON Mik, first of all, Malkin and Oshie will both be top 4 in FOT next year.

That's your speculation. And if that's the case, they will become C at mid-season.

SuperMario wroteCOLON Second, your argument omits the fact that with every rule there needs to be an appeal process to avoid incorrect categorization <--which is the objective here.

There are not going to be appeals unless they are based on agreed exceptions that would then be valid for any other player.

..no one is against this system, but it is not perfect. Appeal processes are important part of every system. please do not make it sound like what you say goes.

of course the system is not perfect, but any exception must be agreed, part of the rules and improve the system as a whole (and being worth as a complication is part of it).
Besides, this is CC decision, not mine.

And it's not like we as CC are saying this is it whatever comes up. If it can be improved, fine.

As for Jussi, i don't see it as a big deal: FOR =.265 with only 3 C ahead.. it could very well be close or above .3 next season, so you're saying we need an apposite rule because otherwise your Jussi might need a correction at mid-season?

No I'm saying the only benchmark should be 0.3 FOR. That makes sure every C is a C. And wingers like Iginla and Jokinen do not get fucked (didn't you say you chose 0.3 not to fuck iginla over?). Keep in mind this is not just about Jokinen. FOR < 0.3 means really less than 200 FOW for top line players. There is an easy solution to make sure we have it right all the way without overturning anything. In the future we will have other blatant wingers who have an FOR < than 0.3 but are still listed as Cs because they are in the top 4 of their team just like Jussi. Instead of reevaluating, why not just modify the system just a tad to make sure it is perfect?

SuperMario wroteCOLONNo I'm saying the only benchmark should be 0.3 FOR. That makes sure every C is a C. And wingers like Iginla and Jokinen do not get fucked (didn't you say you chose 0.3 not to fuck iginla over?). Keep in mind this is not just about Jokinen. FOR < 0.3 means really less than 200 FOW for top line players. There is an easy solution to make sure we have it right all the way without overturning anything. In the future we will have other blatant wingers who have an FOR < than 0.3 but are still listed as Cs because they are in the top 4 of their team just like Jussi. Instead of reevaluating, why not just modify the system just a tad to make sure it is perfect?

not to spoil it, but the system will never be perfect anyway.
a guy can have a FOR <.3 thx to the fact some FO specialist were on his team until the trade deadline: that specialist was traded, that makes your guy a top 4 hence a C, next year your guy record a .5 FOR => turns out having him as C despite the <.3 was the better assessment.

I was asked to make it as simple as possible: making the top 4 all centers without having to check their FOR was part of it.
Generally speaking, adding exceptions can complicate the writing/application and understanding of the ruling, but can help accuracy.
It's about deciding when it's worth.
In this case it wouldn't be a real complication but how much would it help accuracy?

SuperMario wroteCOLONI do have a proposed solution. Players that should be listed at C should be those whose FOR > 0.3. That solves all problems because the top 4 guys on every team would be > 0.3 anyways. As well any dual eligible guys get listed right. But at the same time a guy with 150 fow who is blatantly a W does not accidentally get listed as a C just like Iginla. This would help guys like Malkin and Oshie as well.

dude, Iginla stays a winger under current criteria.
But yeah, could have happened otherwise if the Flames traded one of their C.

Anyhow, how many other 'unfair' assessment do you see besides the supposed one for Jokinen?


not sure what you mean as for dual eligible guys and Malkin/Oshie getting help.

The fact Malkin is listed as a WINGER and Marleau is listed as a CENTRE is going to make my head explode.

Mik here are my arguments:

1) using the system of Top 4 C is the same as using just FOR < 0.3 alone. This is because top 4 Cs will all have FOR > 0.3. So that is a very simple change.
2) Jokinen is not the only one. I actually do not have time no for it but I can look later. Let's assume Calgary trades one of their Cs. Iginla would become a C simply because he is top 4 in FOT? That right there shows you how flawed the Top 4 C system is.
3) There will be such instances in the future. What happens if Seguin remains a W but takes FOW when Bergeron/Krejci get kicked out? There are going to be countless young Cs coming up that end up playing W because of organizational depth, yet see some FOT because their Cs will get kicked out of the circle. At that point, we will need to list legitimate Ws as Cs.
4) I am not saying a guy like Zetterberg should be a W. I'm saying there is a unique population of guys with less than 200 fow who are legitimate Ws, who will get screwed by this top 4 rule. Using FOR alone solves this problem, while keeping the list almost identical.

Shep wroteCOLONThe fact Malkin is listed as a WINGER and Marleau is listed as a CENTRE is going to make my head explode.

time will fix that (if you're right).
Just hold on Marleau.

Oh, and the fact Penguins use Malkin as a winger does make my head explode as well, on a regular basis.

kyuss wroteCOLON

Shep wroteCOLONThe fact Malkin is listed as a WINGER and Marleau is listed as a CENTRE is going to make my head explode.

time will fix that (if you're right).
Just hold on Marleau.

Oh, and the fact Penguins use Malkin as a winger does make my head explode as well, on a regular basis.

Malkin is their 2nd line centre.

PP winger and on the point has its effects for FOT.

SuperMario wroteCOLONMik here are my arguments:

1) using the system of Top 4 C is the same, as using just FOR < 0.3 alone. This is because top 4 Cs will all have FOR > 0.3.

it is not exatly the same as Jokinen's situation shows:

kyuss wroteCOLON not to spoil it, but the system will never be perfect anyway.
a guy can have a FOR <.3 thx to the fact some FO specialist were on his team until the trade deadline: that specialist was traded, that makes your guy a top 4 hence a C, next year your guy record a .5 FOR => turns out having him as C despite the <.3 was the better assessment.

SuperMario wroteCOLONLet's assume Calgary trades one of their Cs. Iginla would become a C simply because he is top 4 in FOT? That right there shows you how flawed the Top 4 C system is.

yeah that would be a tough break. Would be fixed by mid-season though and if the system flaws affect only *one* player in the league for a few months, i think we should be celebrating.

3) There will be such instances in the future. What happens if Seguin remains a W but takes FOW when Bergeron/Krejci get kicked out? There are going to be countless young Cs coming up that end up playing W because of organizational depth, yet see some FOT because their Cs will get kicked out of the circle. At that point, we will need to list legitimate Ws as Cs.

i'm not getting this
btw, it seems you keep on ignoring the fact that as far as BBKL is concerned, we do not care if the guy takes a faceoff after the real center is kicked out or not. For us he takes a faceoff, period.

Jokinen is not the only one. I actually do not have time no for it but I can look later
...
4) I am not saying a guy like Zetterberg should be a W. I'm saying there is a unique population of guys with less than 200 fow who are legitimate Ws, who will get screwed by this top 4 rule.

please point out who are the guys making up this population.

Shep wroteCOLON

kyuss wroteCOLON

Shep wroteCOLONThe fact Malkin is listed as a WINGER and Marleau is listed as a CENTRE is going to make my head explode.

time will fix that (if you're right).
Just hold on Marleau.

Oh, and the fact Penguins use Malkin as a winger does make my head explode as well, on a regular basis.

Malkin is their 2nd line centre.

nope, unfortunately he was not last year (and his FOR would be under .3 even at ES)

Hopefully he will next season.

kyuss wroteCOLONyeah that would be a tough break. Would be fixed by mid-season though and if the system flaws affect only *one* player in the league for a few months, i think we should be celebrating.

Tough Break?

If Iginla became a centre because of this rule, that'd be the biggest joke in the history of fantasy hockey.

Shep wroteCOLON

kyuss wroteCOLONyeah that would be a tough break. Would be fixed by mid-season though and if the system flaws affect only *one* player in the league for a few months, i think we should be celebrating.

Tough Break?

If Iginla became a centre because of this rule, that'd be the biggest joke in the history of fantasy hockey.

i think that is what Mik is missing. This system is good. But a player like Iginla can become a center if his team trades one of their players --> this is the case with Jokinen. There is an easy fix to make sure players like Iginla and Jokinen don't get screwed. I don't understand what the big deal in changing the rule to only FOR > 0.3 is. It would solve all problems.

Mik this is the best way I can put it. Your system of Top 4 Cs can result in "flaws." Using just 0.3 FOR avoids those "flaws" and maintains everyone else to be centers anyways. Simple solution for identifying a solution from now on:

IF player's FOR > 0.3, then he is a C.

End of story.