Buffalo/Nashville

[KapG]

Yeah I wouldn't call this veto worthy, but we all know Phion could have gotten alot more for what he gave up. All of us that didnt start during the leagues inception got raped. Theres a number of deals I did when I first joined in week 7 that I completely regret now. But thats how we all learn value in this league, by screwing up some big deals...getting flamed....then never making the same mistake again.

Active learning baby!

[Phion Keneuf]

So far your deals haven't been too bad. Just ask a couple of opinions before you pull the trigger on a big player.

Ask any of me, shep, billy, or mike and we'd give you an honest opinion on any deal(s) u make!

Alright man, thanks

[Shep]

It's rape for Mik, simple as that. It happens to everybody. As time goes on, Phion will realize how much more valuable NHLers are even to a rebuilding team and will look back at this trade and think "fuck, what was I thinking?"

The best thing for a new GM is to ask around for peoples opinions. However, I know from many experiences that once you get set on a certain idea, even if another GM tells you you're insane to do it, you still do it. I can't see that being the case with this particular trade, but you should have been able to get a solid NHLer back in place of that 2nd rounder, like Johansson.

You should have been able to get Granlund + 1st for Richards. That's just my opinion.

When you first mentioned this to me via PM earlier in the week I told you it was a very bad cycle. I didn't realize it was still being contemplated or I would have recommended shopping Richards a lot longer, or asking for significantly more.

[kyuss]

It's rape for Mik, simple as that. It happens to everybody. As time goes on, Phion will realize how much more valuable NHLers are even to a rebuilding team and will look back at this trade and think "fuck, what was I thinking?"

The best thing for a new GM is to ask around for peoples opinions. However, I know from many experiences that once you get set on a certain idea, even if another GM tells you you're insane to do it, you still do it. I can't see that being the case with this particular trade, but you should have been able to get a solid NHLer back in place of that 2nd rounder, like Johansson.

You should have been able to get Granlund + 1st for Richards. That's just my opinion.

When you first mentioned this to me via PM earlier in the week I told you it was a very bad cycle. I didn't realize it was still being contemplated or I would have recommended shopping Richards a lot longer, or asking for significantly more.

just for the record, he would have not been able to get Granlund + BUF 1st for Richards, and i would have not done BUF 1st + Johansson + Etem either. It's not like i needed Brad badly.

Richards can definitely help a team, but is also a blackhole for a couple of stats, that obviously affects his true value in this league (which is thus lower than in real world) and previous trades and offers show that as well.

As for his cycle, it's not like he paid more to acquire Richards *2* days ago.
I wouldn't have paid this much for Pacio, in fact days ago i asked Pacio for the pick alone, he sold Pacio for Brad instead, came back and got Etem and a 2nd along with his pick.. so he did pretty well if you ask me.
Obv before judging the outcome we'll have to see how good Etem will be and what he will get with that 1st.

Yeah I wouldn't call this veto worthy, but we all know Phion could have gotten alot more for what he gave up.

not in a deal for his 1st, which is what he really wanted.

He could have had a couple of lesser prospects instead of the 2nd (i'd have preferred giving more value through a package), but that's about it.

[Shep]

It's rape for Mik, simple as that. It happens to everybody. As time goes on, Phion will realize how much more valuable NHLers are even to a rebuilding team and will look back at this trade and think "fuck, what was I thinking?"

The best thing for a new GM is to ask around for peoples opinions. However, I know from many experiences that once you get set on a certain idea, even if another GM tells you you're insane to do it, you still do it. I can't see that being the case with this particular trade, but you should have been able to get a solid NHLer back in place of that 2nd rounder, like Johansson.

You should have been able to get Granlund + 1st for Richards. That's just my opinion.

When you first mentioned this to me via PM earlier in the week I told you it was a very bad cycle. I didn't realize it was still being contemplated or I would have recommended shopping Richards a lot longer, or asking for significantly more.

just for the record, he would have not been able to get Granlund + BUF 1st for Richards, and i would have not done BUF 1st + Johansson + Etem either. It's not like i needed Brad badly.

Richards can definitely help a team, but is also a blackhole for a couple of stats, that obviously affects his true value in this league (which is thus lower than in real world) and previous trades and offers show that as well.

As for his cycle, it's not like he paid more to acquire Richards *2* days ago.
I wouldn't have paid this much for Pacio, in fact days ago i asked Pacio for the pick alone, he sold Pacio for Brad instead, came back and got Etem and a 2nd along with his pick.. so he did pretty well if you ask me.
Obv before judging the outcome we'll have to see how good Etem will be and what he will get with that 1st.

Yeah I wouldn't call this veto worthy, but we all know Phion could have gotten alot more for what he gave up.

not in a deal for his 1st, which is what he really wanted.

He could have had a couple of lesser prospects instead of the 2nd (i'd have preferred giving more value through a package), but that's about it.

I realize you wouldn't have done it, but value wise that is what he should/could have been able to get whether it was from you or somebody else. He obviously got enamored by his pick and rebuilding that he overpaid for it. All trades involving picks and prospects you can say "before judging you need to see what they do" but until that, we have to go off the unknowns of what was dealt. And those unknowns of what Etem does and what that 1st rounder are, is rape for you.

I don't know why you try and defend it. You're the only one doing so. As Mike said, be happy with the rape because you obviously got a #1 centre for an OK prospect and a 1st in the 5-10 range.

[Chuck Norris]

Yup Shep got what I said. Maybe you wouldnt have given more but nearly every other GM in this league would have willingly paid more than what you did for BRich.

[Shep]

It's all a learning process for new GM's, and as I said a simple PM or MSN message asking the opinion on the trade he may have seen that it was pretty bad.

[KapG]

Yup Shep got what I said. Maybe you wouldnt have given more but nearly every other GM in this league would have willingly paid more than what you did for BRich.

I had much more valuable offers on the table when Thom was shopping him IMO.

Mik, be happy you pulled the wool over someones eyes, it doesn't happen very often any more...

[kimmer]

mik 2014 1st CAR for b rich

[kyuss]

All trades involving picks and prospects you can say "before judging you need to see what they do" but until that, we have to go off the unknowns of what was dealt. And those unknowns of what Etem does and what that 1st rounder are, is rape for you.

this is what doesn't make any sense to me. For some reasons 'unknowns' are discarded as crap simply because unproven, like an unknown 7th rounder was the same thing as an unknown 1st overall.
Going with your logic, if given the opportunity i shouldn't trade Bergenheim for MacKinnon+Seth Jones, cause hey, they are unproven, they did zip so far in the NHL unlike Bergy.
Until those two enter the NHL, that deal would be called a rape i guess?
mmmh.. more likely it would be called a rape the other way once they do...

[kyuss]

mik 2014 1st CAR for b rich

- add a prospect as good as Etem
- add a 2nd
- make it 2013 1st CAR
- now make me a rookie GM who is not trying to compete this year

and i might do.

Replace b rich with Pacio and i do it for sure.

[Shep]

All trades involving picks and prospects you can say "before judging you need to see what they do" but until that, we have to go off the unknowns of what was dealt. And those unknowns of what Etem does and what that 1st rounder are, is rape for you.

this is what doesn't make any sense to me. For some reasons 'unknowns' are discarded as crap simply because unproven, like an unknown 7th rounder was the same thing as an unknown 1st overall.
Going with your logic, if given the opportunity i shouldn't trade Bergenheim for MacKinnon+Seth Jones, cause hey, they are unproven, they did zip so far in the NHL unlike Bergy.
Until those two enter the NHL, that deal would be called a rape i guess?
mmmh.. more likely it would be called a rape the other way once they do...

You're comparing a late 1st pick and 2 guys speculated to be Top 3 picks. Also comparing a complete plug to a 1st line centre. Stop being ridiculous.

I'm not going to bother any more. You are the only person that believes this is a fair trade.

Defend it all you want. You raped, everybody knows you raped.

[Robin Hood]

All trades involving picks and prospects you can say "before judging you need to see what they do" but until that, we have to go off the unknowns of what was dealt. And those unknowns of what Etem does and what that 1st rounder are, is rape for you.

this is what doesn't make any sense to me. For some reasons 'unknowns' are discarded as crap simply because unproven, like an unknown 7th rounder was the same thing as an unknown 1st overall.
Going with your logic, if given the opportunity i shouldn't trade Bergenheim for MacKinnon+Seth Jones, cause hey, they are unproven, they did zip so far in the NHL unlike Bergy.
Until those two enter the NHL, that deal would be called a rape i guess?
mmmh.. more likely it would be called a rape the other way once they do...

You're comparing a late 1st pick and 2 guys speculated to be Top 3 picks. Also comparing a complete plug to a 1st line centre. Stop being ridiculous.

I'm not going to bother any more. You are the only person that believes this is a fair trade.

Defend it all you want. You raped, everybody knows you raped.

He's Italian, Shep.

They dive in soccer too...

disclaimer: I love italians

[Shep]

The only reason you're defending it because you used to lecture people on raping noobies, and now you've dont it yourself and have to defend it to no end.

[Shep]

FTR, I have no issues with the deal. People can do as they please with their teams. This stuff happens. Only thing that irks me is you trying to defend it's legitimization.

[kyuss]

You're comparing a late 1st pick and 2 guys speculated to be Top 3 picks. Also comparing a complete plug to a 1st line centre. Stop being ridiculous.

i'm simply showing you how shortsighted that strict logic is. Because that's where it could bring you.

oh, and which is the late 1st? Etem is still not worth more than a late 1st right now? you think he would go #29 if they could re-do the draft?
Besides, as the names suggested, i was actually thinking more of BUF 1st, that will probably be a top selection in 2013.

I'm not going to bother any more. You are the only person that believes this is a fair trade.

i'm not the only who defended this deal actually, unless along with unknowns you decide to discard different opinions as well.

Defend it all you want. You raped, everybody knows you raped.

we'll see if you and the others (not everyone) calling rape are right in a couple of years. Hopefully not.

[Tony]

a quote I remember quite well from around here - "can't rape the willing"

[Shep]

Alright, you win. Phion destroyed this trade and I cannot believe a veteren GM like you would give up all that just for Brad Richards.

[Robin Hood]

Alright, you win. Phion destroyed this trade and I cannot believe a veteren GM like you would give up all that just for Brad Richards.

LOL. Mik is a subpar gm though, Shep. His team will forever be shit.

[kyuss]

The only reason you're defending it because you used to lecture people on raping noobies..

did i?

maybe i simply pushed for the trade-buddy thing to be implemented consistently?

Phion has been in the league for a month.
Newcomers in the past were assaulted with tens of trade offers in their second day in the league, and called crazy/retard left and right if not pulling the trigger straight away (on bad deals).. sorry for not having been a fan of that (experienced it first hand). That kind of thing had nothing to do with this trade though: the first Brad Richards talk with Phion was a proposal coming from him, "B.Richards for Etem + 2013 BUF 1st + prospect/pick", two days ago.

Alright, you win. Phion destroyed this trade and I cannot believe a veteren GM like you would give up all that just for Brad Richards.

BUF 1st was not a top 5 pick in my hands, and i'm trying to compete now, so it was worth the risk bro