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kyuss wroteCOLON

Handsome&FairMike wroteCOLON

kyuss wroteCOLONstruggling as usual with some of our LTIR specifics.

Looking at Scandella & Hornqvist situations, they're coming off injuries but it's not clear when. Scandella in particular is probably going to miss the first week at least after off-season surgery. Do both qualify for LTIR? would they need to remain on LTIR for at least the first 3 weeks of the season if assigned to LTIR (no matter if they come back in the meantime) ?

Did anyone answer this? I assume they should have to stay on LTIR for 3 weeks

I never got a direct answer on that, as the matter of discussion shifted to the question should Scandella even be eligible for LTIR? (after speculations he might be even able to play on opening night).

but since most CC members apparently felt like he didn't miss any games because he missed only pre-season games rather than regular season games, my guess is should he go to LTIR he would need to remain there for at least 3 weeks no matter what.
But keep in mind guessing players wouldn't be considered eligible for retroactive LTIR on the first week of the season is just my speculation based on a that not directly related discussion

Checking the comments on this thread and CBA it seems still unclear about the LTIR 3 weeks rule - assume for now the player needs to stay out for 3 weeks regardless of when they come back? And when does the actual 3 week counter start - is it from the day that the player is posted on LTIR here? See some references to retroactive LTIR here, so that is allowed here? And if retro is allowed, when does that go back to - the day of last game they played before being declared as retro LTIR?

This will answer
As long as there is PROOF that this player had been injured, timing of when you place a guy on LTIR is irrelevant, and marked as GM discretion/strategy.

Nobodys gonna force u to place a guy on BBKL LTIR, even if the guy may be injured for real in NHL as u know (lets say for reference this is... week 5 of season when guy got injured). However about... say 2 weeks in of players actual injury (lets pretend this is at... Week 7 of season), u decided u wanna make room for cap, and see that there is no significant news regarding his return being IMMINENT, one GM may go ahead and use that BBKL LTIR simply stating "CAR places player on LTIR from week 8. Eligible back week 11" - because any move u make DURING week 7 takes place for week 8. In other words no, date of players actual injury is irrelevant unless you are actually placing him on LTIR that moment u learn of his injury. No need for retroactive LTIR implementation.

In the end YOU place a player on BBKL LTIR whenever u see fit to run a team with cap needs. Just that at the MOMENT you prepare to place a guy on LTIR, make sure that u can provide proof that he indeed is still injured.

As for retroactive LTIR placement for BBKL, I dont rly see any viable reason to do things that way unless you fucked up cap calculations and u found out u were over the limit in those retroactive weeks that you DIDNT place the player on LTIR. So thetefore u need to do so in order to be cap compliant

Edit: see in nsh and dallas case in pg 1 of this thread, i remember why some use this retroactive placement.
It is because they intended on putting jenner/hendricks on LTIR to start season and had already done it that way on SPREADSHEET. Just that they simply didnt POST in words until oct 9 which to own realization, is week 2 already. Since they calculated cap and sheeted that way in google docs in such way since week 1, they say retroactive placement to week 1 simply cuz they were late in posting it

And to finish off, due to whatever reason and timing at which u implement ur LTIR for a given player, you may NEVER lift the 3 week downtime EVEN IF the said player received real life news that he will be returning within a week of the date at which you placed him on LTIR.

^

what he said.

kimmer wroteCOLON Edit: see in nsh and dallas case in pg 1 of this thread, i remember why some use this retroactive placement.
It is because they intended on putting jenner/hendricks on LTIR to start season and had already done it that way on SPREADSHEET. Just that they simply didnt POST in words until oct 9 which to own realization, is week 2 already. Since they calculated cap and sheeted that way in google docs in such way since week 1, they say retroactive placement to week 1 simply cuz they were late in posting it

But the Nashville claim of Matt Hendricks was processed Oct 5 (after week 1 already started). And Dallas doesn't even have a Week 1 sheet to reference.

kimmer wroteCOLON And to finish off, due to whatever reason and timing at which u implement ur LTIR for a given player, you may NEVER lift the 3 week downtime EVEN IF the said player received real life news that he will be returning within a week of the date at which you placed him on LTIR.

So the 3 week period starts with the next lock-in period always? So in effect the player needs to be on the LTIR section in Google Sheets for three full weeks minimum - that would be clear.

And for a DTD injury, you can in actuality wait until well into an injury before declaring a player as LTIR? And in effect get an addition 3 weeks of LTIR relief from the point of declaration even if that player unexpectedly returns to the lineup later that week?

yes, but there must be proof he is injured and it's not a he is missing a game because he's banged up and will be back next game type of thing.

For example we had someone considering putting Scandella on LTIR to open the season, but there was news saying he was healthy, skating and likely playing game 1 which he did. CC as kind of split on if that should be allowed since LTIR has always been kind of a grey area since NHL can be vague with injury news and a day to day injury ends up with a guy out 5 weeks sometimes.

tbone wroteCOLON
So the 3 week period starts with the next lock-in period always? So in effect the player needs to be on the LTIR section in Google Sheets for three full weeks minimum - that would be clear.

And for a DTD injury, you can in actuality wait until well into an injury before declaring a player as LTIR? And in effect get an addition 3 weeks of LTIR relief from the point of declaration even if that player unexpectedly returns to the lineup later that week?

the way things have always worked in BBKL (and there hasn't been any announcement of new regulations on this so I don't see how things can be different now until that happens) is:
- if a player is injured, or has been injured and has yet to come back, you can either put him on IR or LTIR.
- if you put him on LTIR, he has to stay there at least 3 weeks (i.e. 3 fantrax weeks). However, if he was already injured in the previous (consecutive) weeks, you can put him on retroactive LTIR (obviously can't date back to before the injury). That allows you to have cap relief in the upcoming week while still being able to get back the player earlier by counting 3 weeks since the start of the retroactive LTIR rather than since the moment you actually put him on LTIR, but (unlike what Kim seemed to suggest) it changes nothing in terms of the cap relief for previous weeks (in fact LTIR for us as of now doesn't mean cap relief per se, unless you take advantage by putting LTIR replacements in the googledoc, something you can't do retroactively)
- you can choose not to use retroactive LTIR for a player who has been injured in previous weeks already, that way he is going to spend 3 weeks on LTIR no matter when he comes back, which allows you to use his bonus relief until the 3 weeks have passed and beyond his real injury, which is some sort of loophole (I guess this is what you were aiming at)

kyuss wroteCOLON

tbone wroteCOLON
So the 3 week period starts with the next lock-in period always? So in effect the player needs to be on the LTIR section in Google Sheets for three full weeks minimum - that would be clear.

And for a DTD injury, you can in actuality wait until well into an injury before declaring a player as LTIR? And in effect get an addition 3 weeks of LTIR relief from the point of declaration even if that player unexpectedly returns to the lineup later that week?

the way things have always worked in BBKL (and there hasn't been any announcement of new regulations on this so I don't see how things can be different now until that happens) is:
- if a player is injured, or has been injured and has yet to come back, you can either put him on IR or LTIR.
- if you put him on LTIR, he has to stay there at least 3 weeks (i.e. 3 fantrax weeks). However, if he was already injured in the previous (consecutive) weeks, you can put him on retroactive LTIR (obviously can't date back to before the injury). That allows you to have cap relief in the upcoming week while still being able to get back the player earlier by counting 3 weeks since the start of the retroactive LTIR rather than since the moment you actually put him on LTIR, but (unlike what Kim seemed to suggest) it changes nothing in terms of the cap relief for previous weeks (in fact LTIR for us as of now doesn't mean cap relief per se, unless you take advantage by putting LTIR replacements in the googledoc, something you can't do retroactively)
- you can choose not to use retroactive LTIR for a player who has been injured in previous weeks already, that way he is going to spend 3 weeks on LTIR no matter when he comes back, which allows you to use his bonus relief until the 3 weeks have passed and beyond his real injury, which is some sort of loophole (I guess this is what you were aiming at)

So ur saying that as long as theres legit proof of history of player being injured in say weeks 3 thru 7 (and beyond from the hypothetical looks of it), i can go ahead and place a guy on Ltir at middle of say week 7, and say that i place player on LTIR RETROACTIVE TO WK 7 even tho u cant readjust cap for week 7, and tryin get him back for week 10 instead of how i laid out this particular LTIR case to be effective for week 8 elig back week 11??

kyuss wroteCOLON

tbone wroteCOLON
So the 3 week period starts with the next lock-in period always? So in effect the player needs to be on the LTIR section in Google Sheets for three full weeks minimum - that would be clear.

And for a DTD injury, you can in actuality wait until well into an injury before declaring a player as LTIR? And in effect get an addition 3 weeks of LTIR relief from the point of declaration even if that player unexpectedly returns to the lineup later that week?

the way things have always worked in BBKL (and there hasn't been any announcement of new regulations on this so I don't see how things can be different now until that happens) is:
- if a player is injured, or has been injured and has yet to come back, you can either put him on IR or LTIR.
- if you put him on LTIR, he has to stay there at least 3 weeks (i.e. 3 fantrax weeks). However, if he was already injured in the previous (consecutive) weeks, you can put him on retroactive LTIR (obviously can't date back to before the injury). That allows you to have cap relief in the upcoming week while still being able to get back the player earlier by counting 3 weeks since the start of the retroactive LTIR rather than since the moment you actually put him on LTIR, but (unlike what Kim seemed to suggest) it changes nothing in terms of the cap relief for previous weeks (in fact LTIR for us as of now doesn't mean cap relief per se, unless you take advantage by putting LTIR replacements in the googledoc, something you can't do retroactively)
- you can choose not to use retroactive LTIR for a player who has been injured in previous weeks already, that way he is going to spend 3 weeks on LTIR no matter when he comes back, which allows you to use his bonus relief until the 3 weeks have passed and beyond his real injury, which is some sort of loophole (I guess this is what you were aiming at)

Thx, this does clear things up a bit.

Another item, do we need to name a specific replacement player for the LTIR in this thread as stated in the CBA, noticed for the most part it's not done here:

3-2-1 : The skater replacing the LTIR skater MUST be documented in the Transaction thread.

Or can we just leave it open to name replacement players in google docs on a week by week basis as we choose?

Also, can we place an injured player initially on IR to open up a roster spot, then later on transfer this player from IR to LTIR to open up cap space if needed? Given the ability of retroactive LTIR, don't see a reason to place a player on LTIR early unless you're going to immediately utilize the cap space. And this allows you to not lock your player out for 3 weeks in case he comes back early (unless it is advantageous to do so of course).

tbone wroteCOLON Another item, do we need to name a specific replacement player for the LTIR in this thread as stated in the CBA, noticed for the most part it's not done here:

3-2-1 : The skater replacing the LTIR skater MUST be documented in the Transaction thread.

That CBA was written when we didn't have googledocs yet.. since nowadays you need to do that on googledocs anyway, that has become kind of redundant on the forums and a less common habit.

Or can we just leave it open to name replacement players in google docs on a week by week basis as we choose?

You can, like you could, but replacement players need to come from the farm (hence need to be waiver exempyt if they're originally on the active roster), and removing previous replacement players could mean exposing someone to waivers if eligible.

Also, can we place an injured player initially on IR to open up a roster spot, then later on transfer this player from IR to LTIR to open up cap space if needed? Given the ability of retroactive LTIR, don't see a reason to place a player on LTIR early unless you're going to immediately utilize the cap space. And this allows you to not lock your player out for 3 weeks in case he comes back early (unless it is advantageous to do so of course).

all correct

Mikael Granlund to IR

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/333 ... l-granlund

Charlie Coyle to LTIR, Broken Tibia . Starting Week 3, eligible to return Week 6.

https://www.nhl.com/news/charlie-coyle- ... -291898222

Cap Relief Callups:
Christian Dvorak $1,051,666
Patrik Nemeth 945,000

CAR activates off IR:

D Jay Bouwmeester

CAR places on IR:

W Jonathan Marchessault

Fantrax wroteCOLONMarchessault (lower body) was added to injured reserve Sunday.Oct. 15, 2017
Marchessault (lower body) was added to injured reserve Sunday.
Analysis: A 30-goal scorer with Florida just a season ago, Marchessault scored his first goal in Friday's defeat to Detroit, which is also when he apparently suffered the injury. By being placed on the injured list, Marchessault has effectively been ruled out for at least the coming week and further updates should be provided after that.

Kyle Clifford to LTIR (Starting Week 3, eligible to return Week 6)

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/3095/kyle-clifford

Cap Relief call-up:
Alex Tuch

Nino to IR

https://www.nhl.com/news/charlie-coyle- ... -291898222

Marc-Andre Fleury IR

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oct ... eury-plac/

Drake Caggiula to IR

https://www.coppernblue.com/2017/10/15/ ... rad-malone

Haula to IR for Week #3

(Oct 14th news, hence ahead of roster lock): https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hocke ... red-to-ir/

Haula was placed on injured reserve with an undisclosed injury Saturday, Steve Carp of the Las Vegas Review-Journal reports.

Awesome...

Ryan Spooner to LTIR

"Spooner will be sidelined for 4-to-6 weeks due to a right groin adductor tear."

https://www.fantrax.com/newui/playerPro ... 17j1pleirk

Hemsky to ir

https://www.fantrax.com/newui/playerPro ... 17j1pleirk

Montreal called up scherbak and McCarron to fill in too.

Matthew wroteCOLONHemsky to ir

https://www.fantrax.com/newui/playerPro ... 17j1pleirk

Montreal called up scherbak and McCarron to fill in too.

Paquette to ir

https://www.fantrax.com/newui/playerPro ... 17j1pleirk