VGK-NSH

[kyuss]

man Matt came back sharp from his hiatus

[Shoalzie]

Honestly, your beef doesn't seem to be the fact we trade our 1sts...it's about who we trade with, right?

Mik is undoubtedly "resource rich" when it comes to having strong NHL talent, good waiver-exempt NHLers, lots of prospects and several high picks. There's not a lot of teams who have players that that can afford to move for picks. Granted, those players are typically on big contracts and in their later 20s/early 30s. He trades away a veteran for futures and fills the spot in the lineup with a young NHL in his system.

I can stop trading my 1st anytime but you can't stop other teams from doing it. I'm trying to establish a solid NHL-level roster (playoff-worthy or not) and then as years go on, I'll build back up my prospect pool through the draft. I want to get to the point where I can dip into my own stockpile rather than cough up top prospects and 1st and 2nd rounders when I have gaping holes in my lineup.

[kimmer]

lol he's not defending u

[foofnik]

yea, wait til you see how useful karlsson or OEL will be in 3-4 years when you and ARZ MIGHT be ready for "competing" lol
see my point
was that worth it in 2019 to do the deal

know-wa-mean?

I got Panarin for Mittelstadt and Vatrano from him. No complaints here from me on that one.

[kimmer]

wew mik brigade out to rescue against big bad Kim the ultimate troll bully

[Shoalzie]

Panarin's great if you can afford that beefy contract.

Mik can keep a guy like Panarin while he's on a cheaper salary. You can set your watch to when he's got to make trades...he always has a group of players that are due serious raises. He can't keep everyone forever...thank you, salary cap.

[KapG]

Best thing I ever did was to stop fucking with my first rounder

[Shoalzie]

Best thing I ever did was to stop fucking with my first rounder

If you can get enough GP out of the players you have and your intent is to build through the draft...you shouldn't trade your 1st.

If I was a bottom 5 team, I wouldn't do it either. I've trying to compete for a wild card position so my hope wasn't to finish in the bottom 10 teams in the league.

Again, I say don't trade your 1st unless you want to compete. Rebuilding is so much about having the patience to endure years of losing just for the chance to draft top prospects who (maybe) turn into players you can win with.

[KapG]

Best thing I ever did was to stop fucking with my first rounder

If you can get enough GP out of the players you have and your intent is to build through the draft...you shouldn't trade your 1st.

If I was a bottom 5 team, I wouldn't do it either. I've trying to compete for a wild card position so my hope wasn't to finish in the bottom 10 teams in the league.

Again, I say don't trade your 1st unless you want to compete. Rebuilding is so much about having the patience to endure years of losing just for the chance to draft top prospects who (maybe) turn into players you can win with.

I did the whole try and sneak into the playoffs thing but nothing was ever going to come of that. Started serious rebuild thoughts when I landed dahlin. Took some seeeeeerious steps in that direction this year too.

You gotta be lucky enough to have assets in the first place thet you can blow up for futures. If you don’t it’s definitely tough with just 7 picks a year.

[kimmer]

thing is unless you win NHLer stat deals in favour of your team consecutively for tens of trades (which isnt possible) over time,,, you might as well reset and try to REVERSE the trend of 'stronger get stronger'
only way to do that is not trade your 1st no matter what position ur in. You can trade late as fuck 1sts, but not your own 1st just to make it to the WC spot... I'd think any subsequent results thereafter is a demise of franchise the following offseason since you likely didn't win and/or make the wildcard + cannot draft in the 1st rd with chance at a lottery. Trading your own 1st just to make the WC is a silly mindset.

[dave1959]

Yeah, sneaking into our playoffs isn't anywhere close to sneaking into nhl playoffs where anything can happen.

stats leagues are a lot more consistent and upsets rare.

[Shoalzie]

What's kind of crazy is there seems to be more teams trying to compete for last place than there are teams that want to move up and compete for the playoffs.

To me, there's more opportunity to compete because so many would just assume race to the bottom and try to get lucky in the lottery. Even that doesn't always lead to success. You can actually fail at failing too. As I've said before, we all can't build the best under-25 roster. There's only so many of those players to go around.

I made the playoffs the first year I started when I inherited a roster. I bottomed-out and I'm trying to climb back up to where I was before.

If I'm in the mushy middle...outer edge of the lottery/outer edge of the playoffs...I can live with that if I at least have a roster that can keep me competitive for several years.

Putting all your hopes on prospects is ambitious and the problem is, you can collect prospects all you want but you have no control over when those young players become full-time NHLers.

[KapG]

Yah but when you have enough of them...like when you’re bursting at the seems with them you start offloading the prospects for already established players.

Look at Buffalo and Dallas as examples

[Shoalzie]

Yah but when you have enough of them...like when you’re bursting at the seems with them you start offloading the prospects for already established players.

Look at Buffalo and Dallas as examples

Right.

The salary cap and the waiver exempt rules prevent teams from hoarding over an extended period of time. Mik gets a lot of crap for having a lot of waiver exempt players that never plays. He's in the luxury position where he doesn't have to force his 19/20/21 year old players into his lineup. He can wait a few years before he has to use them while he competes.

That's what I'd like to be able to do eventually. Compete with established players and wait on your youth to get the point where they can help you and you can ultimately move out your pricier veteran players for futures. You can "live off the land" rather hoping you can win in the trade market.

I don't know how long it'll take for me to get where I want to be but I'm fine going my route. You do you, I'll do me.

[Jordan (VGK)]

We may overvalue our top 10 picks a bit. They are important but in way are they the key to the rebuild.

Everyone always agrees in that being top heavy isn't good enough, but yet we see a top pick as the holy grail of value. Just a weird comparison when laid out side by side.


Edit: This isn't in attempt to rationalize this trade lol.

[Matthew]

I'd say in the long run doing what Chuck does with getting 20 picks in the top 60 rather than 1 top 10 pick is a lot more helpful in a league where good depth is so important.

[Jordan (VGK)]

I'd say in the long run doing what Chuck does with getting 20 picks in the top 60 rather than 1 top 10 pick is a lot more helpful in a league where good depth is so important.

Also when considering that top picks have a higher chance of carrying that 10M AAV that is tough to manage for us.

[KapG]

I'd say in the long run doing what Chuck does with getting 20 picks in the top 60 rather than 1 top 10 pick is a lot more helpful in a league where good depth is so important.

It’s great to have as many picks as possible in the top 90.

[KapG]

I'd say in the long run doing what Chuck does with getting 20 picks in the top 60 rather than 1 top 10 pick is a lot more helpful in a league where good depth is so important.

Also when considering that top picks have a higher chance of carrying that 10M AAV that is tough to manage for us.

That’s true, but with the way the caps been going up it’s becoming less and less of a concern. There’s always a buyer if the player is young enough. It’s the north side of 30 where you have to be careful.

[Matthew]

The cap is apparently going to stay flat for the next 3 years, so it will become a concern.