Google Sheets

Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 8:25 pm

CasperX22 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:In BBKL defense and goalies carry more value since you cant just call up the next goalie like in the NHL and we can dress 7D. I was fine with 4 goalies, but 7 would just cause headaches since we already know trading for goalies is already the most annoying thing to do when you are at the mercy of a team who knows they have all the leverage. I actually wanted lower than 14 max D too since some teams already only had 6 and taking advantage of market supply should see Tim take the max D allowed and leave other teams with holes in their lineups.

Sure we could have just followed the NHL numbers, but I think we can all agree there are differences in player value in this league in comparison to the NHL. CC wants Tim to be able to have a decent set of assets to begin with, but he isn't going to be a powerhouse and an expansion team shouldn't be. I feel confident in saying his team will still have more value then a handful of others and he will be starting with more then a lot of GMs here did when they joined.


Now my curiosity is peaked. How low did you want the defender number?


Nothing radical, my last proposal was just one more goalie and one less D but I think I might have said 12D at one point. I support the CC's reasoning though and with players like Oshie and whatever Mik and Thom leave unprotected he will have some high end pieces and should be able to use his extra NHL D to further upgrade and have a Shiv like roster of no prospects or start building a farm if he so chooses.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby CasperX22 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:29 pm

Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:I can't imagine there will be many waiver exempt goalies that will be in the nhl that get exposed, so it would be very difficult to hoard goalies. Either way I was just curious if there was any logic behind the limit other than the usual fear/paranoia of goalie hoarding.

There are 3 bench spots and 2 goalie spots on a roster, so up to 5 can be held with no difficulty..


Assuming he could sell off the rest of his extra NHLers.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 8:31 pm

There will be enough holes with teams like me and other competitors having extra bodies that if teams don't trade with Tim they will risk missing GP.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Arian The Insider » Tue May 09, 2017 8:31 pm

CasperX22 wrote:
Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:I can't imagine there will be many waiver exempt goalies that will be in the nhl that get exposed, so it would be very difficult to hoard goalies. Either way I was just curious if there was any logic behind the limit other than the usual fear/paranoia of goalie hoarding.

There are 3 bench spots and 2 goalie spots on a roster, so up to 5 can be held with no difficulty..


Assuming he could sell off the rest of his extra NHLers.

He probably could, since some teams will have a shortage
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby CasperX22 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:32 pm

Bruyns wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:In BBKL defense and goalies carry more value since you cant just call up the next goalie like in the NHL and we can dress 7D. I was fine with 4 goalies, but 7 would just cause headaches since we already know trading for goalies is already the most annoying thing to do when you are at the mercy of a team who knows they have all the leverage. I actually wanted lower than 14 max D too since some teams already only had 6 and taking advantage of market supply should see Tim take the max D allowed and leave other teams with holes in their lineups.

Sure we could have just followed the NHL numbers, but I think we can all agree there are differences in player value in this league in comparison to the NHL. CC wants Tim to be able to have a decent set of assets to begin with, but he isn't going to be a powerhouse and an expansion team shouldn't be. I feel confident in saying his team will still have more value then a handful of others and he will be starting with more then a lot of GMs here did when they joined.


Now my curiosity is peaked. How low did you want the defender number?


Nothing radical, my last proposal was just one more goalie and one less D but I think I might have said 12D at one point. I support the CC's reasoning though and with players like Oshie and whatever Mik and Thom leave unprotected he will have some high end pieces and should be able to use his extra NHL D to further upgrade and have a Shiv like roster of no prospects or start building a farm if he so chooses.


Well I know which way I would go.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby CasperX22 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:33 pm

Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:
Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:I can't imagine there will be many waiver exempt goalies that will be in the nhl that get exposed, so it would be very difficult to hoard goalies. Either way I was just curious if there was any logic behind the limit other than the usual fear/paranoia of goalie hoarding.

There are 3 bench spots and 2 goalie spots on a roster, so up to 5 can be held with no difficulty..


Assuming he could sell off the rest of his extra NHLers.

He probably could, since some teams will have a shortage


Same can be said for goalies.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby timwebb1212 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:33 pm

I don't think I'll have any problems moving my 9 extra skaters or whatever it is. I also will survive with only 3 goalie spots, it just limits me a little, but didn't mean to start any kind of fuss about it.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Arian The Insider » Tue May 09, 2017 8:34 pm

CasperX22 wrote:
Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:
Arian The Insider wrote:
CasperX22 wrote:I can't imagine there will be many waiver exempt goalies that will be in the nhl that get exposed, so it would be very difficult to hoard goalies. Either way I was just curious if there was any logic behind the limit other than the usual fear/paranoia of goalie hoarding.

There are 3 bench spots and 2 goalie spots on a roster, so up to 5 can be held with no difficulty..


Assuming he could sell off the rest of his extra NHLers.

He probably could, since some teams will have a shortage


Same can be said for goalies.

Except goalies cost more and there are far fewer goalies then skaters, so there's a greater incentive to take tons of goalies
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 8:35 pm

When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby lightupdadarkness » Tue May 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


adjust or die. We see how that has worked out for some teams...
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby CasperX22 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:40 pm

Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


And teams that weren't very good wondered why they never got any better I'm sure. Either is a viable strategy if used correctly. Ebs and flows. I'm sure the market will at some point start to swing the other direction. Some GM's have gotten stuck in their ways though.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby hong57 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


that's definitely true.. usually at 30 players are at the peak.. but now it seems players peak at 25 LOL...
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby CasperX22 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:51 pm

hong57 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


that's definitely true.. usually at 30 players are at the peak.. but now it seems players peak at 25 LOL...


well...
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 8:52 pm

hong57 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


that's definitely true.. usually at 30 players are at the peak.. but now it seems players peak at 25 LOL...


It's been like that for years, but people are just more aware now with all the info at people's disposal. Good players don't just stop being good and fall off a cliff for the most part though unless your Dany Heatley. I brought this up recently but I remember being so frustrated trying to move Getzlaf and being told by a bunch of GMs how he isn't worth that much since he is slowing down. Look at how long Thornton stayed elite for, Getzlaf will be elite for years still in this league and the undervaluing of great players in this league because they aren't 26 is too much sometimes.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Loki » Tue May 09, 2017 8:52 pm

To be fair players peaks were always earlier, they just weren't being given the best opportunities by their teams until they were older
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 8:55 pm

Loki wrote:To be fair players peaks were always earlier, they just weren't being given the best opportunities by their teams until they were older


Yep and the NHL is still slow at realizing this as evidenced by the length and $ value of contracts to players exiting their prime. Statistics are pretty clear and the more savy front offices are already shifting to reflect this.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Matthew » Tue May 09, 2017 8:58 pm

Bruyns wrote:
hong57 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


that's definitely true.. usually at 30 players are at the peak.. but now it seems players peak at 25 LOL...


It's been like that for years, but people are just more aware now with all the info at people's disposal. Good players don't just stop being good and fall off a cliff for the most part though unless your Dany Heatley. I brought this up recently but I remember being so frustrated trying to move Getzlaf and being told by a bunch of GMs how he isn't worth that much since he is slowing down. Look at how long Thornton stayed elite for, Getzlaf will be elite for years still in this league and the undervaluing of great players in this league because they aren't 26 is too much sometimes.


It's a domino effect. If some Group doesnt want a player over 30, then others who may not mind players over 30 can't value those players as highly as they may actually value them, because they know the market is smaller due to that original Group and the resale value won't be great...and so on and on the market gets smaller.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby hong57 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:59 pm

peaking early isn't the problem here.. im comfortable with a team at 30s as im pretty sure their experience will out perform those who peak at 25.. but the real problem is... they get their luxury long term contract at that age.. and once the player decline (even the slightest decline) will make the player not movable.. im comfortable JT getting 10mil im sure he's top 10 players for another 5-6 years.. but these contracts...
so realistic question is.. would you prefer players at 25 (which is well.. their peak) at 5mil or player at 30 (which is considered too old) at 7-8 mil?
the answer would be pretty obvious and hence the shift of the league in valuing the players
simply put though.. players at ELC to their next contract are the most valuable and attractive to any team
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby timwebb1212 » Tue May 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Statistically, the elite forwards tend to peak really young, at like 22ish. Now, I believe the majority of players still peak around 27 or whenever, but for example I expect McDavid to reach his offensive peak in the next few years.
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Re: Google Sheets

Postby Bruyns » Tue May 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Matthew wrote:
Bruyns wrote:
hong57 wrote:
Bruyns wrote:When I joined Shiv's strategy was great since NHLers always had way more value than prospects/picks and he could always cycle players and keep a contending roster. The influx of teams that think the best way to win is accumulate futures and wait and the rapid depreciation of players over 30 that seemingly exists now has drastically changed player value as I'm sure the GMs who have been here longer than me could attest to.


that's definitely true.. usually at 30 players are at the peak.. but now it seems players peak at 25 LOL...


It's been like that for years, but people are just more aware now with all the info at people's disposal. Good players don't just stop being good and fall off a cliff for the most part though unless your Dany Heatley. I brought this up recently but I remember being so frustrated trying to move Getzlaf and being told by a bunch of GMs how he isn't worth that much since he is slowing down. Look at how long Thornton stayed elite for, Getzlaf will be elite for years still in this league and the undervaluing of great players in this league because they aren't 26 is too much sometimes.


It's a domino effect. If some Group doesnt want a player over 30, then others who may not mind players over 30 can't value those players as highly as they may actually value them, because they know the market is smaller due to that original Group and the resale value won't be great...and so on and on the market gets smaller.


Agreed and the cap magnifies it as well. Hopefully in the next couple of years we will have more teams trying to win and the improvement in parity suggests it could happen. That's partly why the market is too high on futures right now there are still too many teams that don't believe they can win so they don't want to improve their current team at the expense of their future.
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