List of BBKL Centres

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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Chris » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:03 pm

What happens if a guy like Couturier is listed as a centre, but moves to the wing coming out of training camp?
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby kyuss » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:10 pm

hong57 wrote:just a bit concerned how a Brandon McMillan is selected in anahiem
thanks

going through our policy for him:

60gp -> our criteria do apply

a) part of the top 4 of his final team

does the following exception
* a player that meets criterion a) but fails to meet both b) and c) will be made a winger upon his GM request
applies?

b) less than 470 FOT
but
c) FOR with Anaheim = 293/844 = .347 > 0.3 => exception does not apply and he is a C to start the season.

However, having FOR < 0.4 he is eligible for the early update:
Two categories of centers are eligible for an early update during the season:
- centers whose FOR was <.4 in the previous season
- rookies ..

Once these players will have played their 26th game of the season, GMs will have the chance to ask for an early update of their position: if FOR<.3 the Center will be moved to W.
GMs will have a limited window to apply for the early update: from 26 to 29 gp; if the request is posted in this thread after the player has reached 30gp it won't be taken into consideration and the player will remain a C at least until the ASB.
If the player happens to reach the 26gp mark after the All Star break, he won't be eligible for a new update. i.e. ASB updates will be final.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby kyuss » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:18 pm

hockeysense wrote:What happens if a guy like Couturier is listed as a centre, but moves to the wing coming out of training camp?


here are the parts of our criteria that touch him:

kyuss wrote:GP specifics
IF the player played less than 26 regular season games for his final team and doesn't meet a) nor b), the following exceptions apply:
....
- if he was a rookie, his position will stay the one it was when he was drafted (source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... 10&round=1). If he was listed with dual position, he will start his BBKL career as a winger.

....

- early updates
Two categories of centers are eligible for an early update during the season:
- centers whose FOR was <.4 in the previous season
- rookies (to be precise: centers who played less than 26 games the previous season and never reached 40 gp in one NHL season; i.e. centers whose position is still determined off nhl.com draft lists, or off CBS for undrafted players).
Once these players will have played their 26th game of the season, GMs will have the chance to ask for an early update of their position: if FOR<.3 the Center will be moved to W.
GMs will have a limited window to apply for the early update: from 26 to 29 gp; if the request is posted in this thread after the player has reached 30gp it won't be taken into consideration and the player will remain a C at least until the ASB.
If the player happens to reach the 26gp mark after the All Star break, he won't be eligible for a new update. i.e. ASB updates will be final.


Couturier is listed C here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... d=1&supl=N

=> will start the season as C, but his status could be updated after his 26gp.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Chris » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:24 pm

Perfect. Thanks Kyuss! And you should reply to that msg! lol
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Mike » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:56 pm

I'm not seeing Jussi on that list any more, am I in the clear?
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby kyuss » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:29 pm

Mike wrote:I'm not seeing Jussi on that list any more, am I in the clear?

he is a veteran and doesn't appear on the list -> W unless there is a mistake.

4th on the team, but 320<470 AND FOR=320/1205.5=0.265 < 0.3
=> exception applies and he is indeed a winger.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby bills09 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:04 am

Im gonna need Colin Greening changed from a C to a LW

http://bbkl.hockey.cbssports.com/player ... :p/scoring?
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Mash » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:38 am

Wow, Mik keep up the great work. It's rather evident that you put a lot of time and work into that and it's very much apprieated!
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:16 am

kyuss wrote:
Mike wrote:I'm not seeing Jussi on that list any more, am I in the clear?

he is a veteran and doesn't appear on the list -> W unless there is a mistake.

4th on the team, but 320<470 AND FOR=320/1205.5=0.265 < 0.3
=> exception applies and he is indeed a winger.


thank you for coming around on this, Mik. And thank you for all the hard work.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby kyuss » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:01 pm

bills09 wrote:Im gonna need Colin Greening changed from a C to a LW

http://bbkl.hockey.cbssports.com/player ... :p/scoring?

just to clarify through another example..

Greening only played 24 games while being a rookie, hence doesn't qualify for our criteria so the fact he doesn't appear on the list wouldn't mean he is not a center.

What determines his starting position is still this at the moment: http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm? ... raftRound=
(please guys post this link when pointing out other 'rookies' - less than 26 gp last year and never 40 gp in one NHL season - that need an update).

here Greening is listed as F -> dual eligible -> starts next season as winger indeed.

So Bill's notice is right and Greening has been added to the list in the 2nd post of this thread.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Chris » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:11 pm

I thought about the debate in this thread, and I'm more curious as to why there's no dual eligibility for guys who play the wing, but take face-offs as well. What's problematic is that there's no indication that there's an impetus to remain as flexible as the game play.

I propose the following solution:
3-4 centre spots
6-7 winger spots
1-2 forward spots

The forward spot will be taken up by players who play the wing/centre. This allows for teams to treat them as players who have dual-eligibility, while paring down the number of centres/wingers one can hoard, while making certain players more "valuable" as they can take up a spot as a dual-player rather than a low-tier centre/winger.

Here's an example of a centre by BBKL definition, but a right winger by NHL definition:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470063
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Mike » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:20 pm

hockeysense wrote:I thought about the debate in this thread, and I'm more curious as to why there's no dual eligibility for guys who play the wing, but take face-offs as well. What's problematic is that there's no indication that there's an impetus to remain as flexible as the game play.

I propose the following solution:
3-4 centre spots
6-7 winger spots
1-2 forward spots

The forward spot will be taken up by players who play the wing/centre. This allows for teams to treat them as players who have dual-eligibility, while paring down the number of centres/wingers one can hoard, while making certain players more "valuable" as they can take up a spot as a dual-player rather than a low-tier centre/winger.

Here's an example of a centre by BBKL definition, but a right winger by NHL definition:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470063


Trust me Chris, we've seen similar ideas. We've tried many of them. Mik's system, though imperfect, is a good system. There is no catch-all perfect system.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Chris » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:27 pm

Not complaining Mike, just being constructive. But the lack of flexibility does worry me.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Nick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:04 pm

Chris you missed the discussion on the listings, you'll have to trust us that it has been discussed in depth.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby bills09 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:42 pm

yeah trust me Chris alll options were looked and technically the 5th C spot counts a F position.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Lee » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:47 am

Could I please have a decision on Andy McDonald? Nearly every source has him listed as a winger going into next year. Only 350 FOT last year, spent over 50 percent of his time being centered by Backes ( the team leader in FOW) on even strength. He had a grand total of 153 ES FOW. For PP time, he was paired with Patrick Berglund, the teams 2nd leading FOW, for 16 percent of his shifts.

The numbers clearly indicate that he was simply a fill in for when Berglund or Backes got kicked from the dot.

Numbers: http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_ ... ns&sent=go

In nearly every trade talk that I've had concerning McDonald, I've been told that he is not a center., CBS indicated him as a winger, TSN has him listed as a C/W. His faceoff ratio is also only 0.283.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Scott » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:34 am

He's on the list.. pretty simple
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Lee » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:43 am

The Devil wrote:He's on the list.. pretty simple


GMs' appeal:
Once the list gets submitted, everyone will have the right and time during the off-season to apply for a change if they realize we had a player's position wrong (on his or others' team) under the aforementioned criteria. He will have to post the correct FOR in the dedicated thread asking for verification. If he is right the position will be fixed accordingly.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Nick » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:09 pm

Yes Lee, do that math and if he comes out a centre, he's a centre - guys should be doing this themselves. Take 2 minutes and figure it out, then check your forwards to know what you're dealing with.
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Re: Provisional list of BBKL centers

Postby Lee » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:11 pm

I did do the math and he does not come out as a center. That's why I'm posting.
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