BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby kyuss » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:54 pm

Loki wrote:To be clear I’m not sure how anyone took my comment as criticism of the work that Shoalzie does or any of the CC in terms of getting positions updated in time. I appreciate the hell out of all the time you guys put in.

I think if you read my first comment again it’s pretty clear that I’m simply saying that the positions changing for forwards several times a year is a recurring headache for managing your team. This isn’t anything new, it’s been a pain point for the league for years to have to continue to update this and deal with the consequences.

Again it’s not me complaining about having to make a roster tweak to become compliant, I’ve had plenty of times where I’ve also ended up with more centres than I needed, but it’s a weirdly unique situation that feels like it serves no real purpose and I’m simply making an offhand comment that maybe we should consider whether we’re actually achieving anything with all this work.

take it easy, I was just making jokes of GMs finding ways to complain about stuff in a league where we have a guy that goes consistently out of his way trying to help them out and to make things easier for them. Nothing serious.

As for the FOR thing, I completely disagree. I think it's been one of the best thing added to the league over the years, which helps keeping things fair in the majority of cases, takes away subjectivity and all the arguing over W/C that we endured in the first few years. It also gives some more reason to GM to look for trades, something this league has been lacking in the last few seasons.
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby Loki » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:37 pm

kyuss wrote:take it easy, I was just making jokes of GMs finding ways to complain about stuff in a league where we have a guy that goes consistently out of his way trying to help them out and to make things easier for them. Nothing serious.

As for the FOR thing, I completely disagree. I think it's been one of the best thing added to the league over the years, which helps keeping things fair in the majority of cases, takes away subjectivity and all the arguing over W/C that we endured in the first few years. It also gives some more reason to GM to look for trades, something this league has been lacking in the last few seasons.


I'm easy man, I'm just saying please don't interpret any feedback as criticism of the work that Shoalzie does. It's possible to give constructive suggestions that may help everyone while still appreciating the work that's done. I'm only mentioning any of this because I care about the league and want it to thrive, my goals are aligned with the work everyone else is doing, so please don't dismiss them out of hand.

Now as for FOR, that's fine, I understand what it's purpose is and I don't think we should return to any level of subjectivity. I'm sure there's more to this than what I know as I don't think I was here before it was implemented. It seems to me what it accomplishes is that it introduces an artificial scarcity around who fits in what forward position. Now you might say that's a good thing because it forces people to make trades, that's fine, I can appreciate that argument.

Part of the ethos of this league however is emulating the experience of being an NHL GM as much as possible, and I think this introduces a situation that doesn't have any analogue to being an NHL GM. NHL GMs and Coaches have complete control over where they deploy their skaters, but lets narrow it down to just forwards, if they need to move someone across to the wing they can do it, if they need to move someone into center they can do it. We as BBKL GMs are restricted by how many faceoffs the guy previously took in the past few months. It's like the GM coming down to the coach and going, sorry bud, you had your 4th line center swap with his winger too many times to take a faceoff on their strong side in the defensive zone, neither of them can play center anymore. I've got to trade one of them now for someone who took more faceoffs recently.

Anyway look, maybe there's not an easy solution to this problem, and I'm not suggesting that one is implemented this year. But I'm curious as a thought experiement what the big downside of having the forward positions be more flexible would be. We already have players with a wing designation taking faceoffs on our rosters right now, would it unbalance the league to be able to move forwards around more freely? The only real downside I can think of is the hit that centers would take in their trade value, and maybe that's not something the league wants, that's fine, I'm just bringing it up as a point of discussion as to whether it's worse than having to deal with this unrealstic roster scenario every few months?
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby Matthew » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:55 pm

I could see it working like this:

A team is limited to 4 centers of a GMs choosing from his group of forwards in any given week. Meaning you can designate any 4 forwards on your team as centers. Only those 4 centers may accumulate FOW for the team that week. Players left in the winger designation, no matter how many fow they get in the NHL, do not accumulate fow for the bbkl team.

That would allow centers to retain value. It would hurt the value of players who aren't designated C who get say .35 FOR though, since they wouldnt accumulate FOW if the BBKL team had 4 more true centers. If one of the centers got injured, that winger could be moved to center in a future week though.


However, I like the way we do it now.
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby Shoalzie » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:03 pm

If teams had enough time to adjust their roster to deal with a shortage of centers, this wouldn't have been an issue. A lot of our prep for the season didn't happen as soon as it should. I take some of the blame.

Teams have gotten hosed by FOR in-season where they have to make a trade to add a center. It's a fair rule because it could be any of us have to make an adjustment.

Next time around...we need to get this information to teams sooner.
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby kyuss » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:44 am

Shoalzie wrote:If teams had enough time to adjust their roster to deal with a shortage of centers, this wouldn't have been an issue.

I doubt, they had the entire off season, the data showing who would start at C and who would start at W were there on their team page the entire off season.

So yeah, all the blame goes to the GMs acting surprised today by their shortage at a specific position. If they cared about it, they would have known.
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby KapG » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:46 am

FOR is one of the better things to happen in the league. I’m not sure you were here before we started using it Loki. It was a bit of a joke…
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Re: BBKL policy for Centers and Wingers

Postby dave1959 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:05 am

Shoalzie wrote:If teams had enough time to adjust their roster to deal with a shortage of centers, this wouldn't have been an issue. A lot of our prep for the season didn't happen as soon as it should. I take some of the blame.

Teams have gotten hosed by FOR in-season where they have to make a trade to add a center. It's a fair rule because it could be any of us have to make an adjustment.

Next time around...we need to get this information to teams sooner.


I agree. Definitely not on the FIRST DAY OF THE SEASON.

If it isn't changed by Roster Submission, then it should remain the same until the next scheduled change.
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